How do you look at and see your course?

[mister v]

Our course is great, Its a mature treelined parkland course, the only issues i have with it are they don't cut back the grass in the trees. we go in the trees and then cant find a ball because of long grass. It looks scruffy and slows play.... other than that i really like it

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Our course is great, Its a mature treelined parkland course, the only issues i have with it are they don't cut back the grass in the trees. we go in the trees and then cant find a ball because of long grass. It looks scruffy and slows play.... other than that i really like it

I played a course in Harrogate earlier this year that cuts the grass down between the many trees that they have. An absolute joy to play. You are still punished, often have to chip out sideways, but there are no delays with people looking for balls, no annoyance because you can't find your ball. It makes such a difference.

 

[Neilds]

I played a course in Harrogate earlier this year that cuts the grass down between the many trees that they have. An absolute joy to play. You are still punished, often have to chip out sideways, but there are no delays with people looking for balls, no annoyance because you can't find your ball. It makes such a difference.

Since our new greens team started about 3 years ago, the trees have had the lower branches removed (pine type trees) and all the grass cut short. Much better for pace of play and playability but still punishes the bad shots but leaving a chip out - most of the time.

 

[Slab]

There’s a lot on how @SILH sees the course and how other members see it

Perhaps you could post a couple of pics of the kind of things they see as scruffy that you embrace as natural ?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

There’s a lot on how @SILH sees the course and how other members see it

Perhaps you could post a couple of pics of the kind of things they see as scruffy that you embrace as natural ?

Just so happens when I was out early evening yesterday I took a couple of pics just in case I was asked that question.

First - view to our 4th green showing how greens, bunkers, surrounds and approach are typically presented



Next...I walk 15 paces to the left where I took the above picture and stand by the par 3 13th tee. There is endless moaning from some about how boring and untidy this hole looks...grass growing long all over the place, grass on bank of forward tee allowed to grow long and not cut down; bonded rubber path and maintenance track not edged; bonded rubber path just stops and then it's all worn; new heather area in right middle distance is rubbish...



and just another view from about 25 paces forward and to the left to show consistency with 1st photo above (and the 'rubbish'


new heather area to the right)



And just to show what the same people who would want things tidied up would rather we hadn't done - approach and green of our new 2nd



Just to complete the picture - view from the clubhouse of our 1st tee and it's surrounds, with the rising 1st fairway in front and the 18th coming in down the left - showing how much we aim to minimize course furniture and have the course blending into and using the landscape we are lucky enough to own. If it's not obvious the 1st tee is to the right of the ball washer BTW p- quite a few moan how uninspiring and indeed unattractive this is.

 

[Neilds]

If I was being a bit harsh, the 13th tee does look shabby compared to the picture of the first tee. Cutting the grass on the slopes of the tee box would be a big improvement visually. Also, the path could be improved, make it match those on the last picture, would make it 'fit in' better. rest looks really good though.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I would say that the area in front of the tee box, a little to the sides as well, in picture 2, hole 13, is tatty and looks poor. I don't blame the moans there.

The rest is either very nice or very subjective, ie what is inspiring? The area behind the benches in the last picture is very meh but without seeing more we don't get the full context.

The only other comment I'd make, in picture 1, if that car is actually parked there then they are very brave. Easy to thin one straight into the side of that

 

[The Squirrel]

Well I take it back. With the exception of the 13th tee boxes (they have a point - it doesn't seem to "fit" the style of the rest of the tee boxes from what we can tell here - either you have everything naturalistic or everything well groomed?) they are just a bunch of moaners. Nothing objectionable there and the bunkers look in particularly fine fettle.

Yes the club could make the entrance a bit more grand - some landscaping, bit more of an official "entrance-to-the-course" gateway of some sort to walk through and planted borders could work wonders, starters cabin etc if you want to go wild, but this is at the do-it-once-everything-else-is-sorted end of the spectrum; not a big issue.

The issue leading to moans seems be lack of consistency - if you object to ball washer per hole as want the course to be as natural as possible ... then why do you have some on some holes. If you want a naturalistic "hitting out of the wilds" look off the 13th tee then fine but that theme needs to carry throughout the course - if it's just one or two holes then it appears the greens team just lost interest in mowing after 16 holes

Overall though, my suggestion is organise an away trip at a few of the toughest council muni's you can find so they learn to appreciate that what they have is rather pleasant. Or choose more positively minded playing partners

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I would say that the area in front of the tee box, a little to the sides as well, in picture 2, hole 13, is tatty and looks poor. I don't blame the moans there.

The rest is either very nice or very subjective, ie what is inspiring? The area behind the benches in the last picture is very meh but without seeing more we don't get the full context.

The only other comment I'd make, in picture 1, if that car is actually parked there then they are very brave. Easy to thin one straight into the side of that

it's a road./

I'll note that the photos are of what is generally considered to be the less attractive half of the course. Maybe I'll go later and take a few pics illustrating the same issues but on the 'pretty' half.

Thanks to all for the compliments and feedback. Will pass it on.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Well I take it back. With the exception of the 13th tee boxes (they have a point - it doesn't seem to "fit" the style of the rest of the tee boxes from what we can tell here - either you have everything naturalistic or everything well groomed?) they are just a bunch of moaners. Nothing objectionable there and the bunkers look in particularly fine fettle.

Yes the club could make the entrance a bit more grand - some landscaping, bit more of an official "entrance-to-the-course" gateway of some sort to walk through and planted borders could work wonders, starters cabin etc if you want to go wild, but this is at the do-it-once-everything-else-is-sorted end of the spectrum; not a big issue.

The issue leading to moans seems be lack of consistency - if you object to ball washer per hole as want the course to be as natural as possible ... then why do you have some on some holes. If you want a naturalistic "hitting out of the wilds" look off the 13th tee then fine but that theme needs to carry throughout the course - if it's just one or two holes then it appears the greens team just lost interest in mowing after 16 holes

Overall though, my suggestion is organise an away trip at a few of the toughest council muni's you can find so they learn to appreciate that what they have is rather pleasant. Or choose more positively minded playing partners

As it happens we have a little starters cabin just out of sight on the RHS of the 1st tee...of course for some it's in the wrong place. But were we to put it where they'd want it - it'd be just to the right of the benches and club feeling is that would just clutter the open panorama we have from the clubhouse.

Ball washers - IIRC we have the one on the 1st and one by the 15th - and that's it. Plus in general we don't manicure the slopes of teeing areas where they are raised - we'll maybe keep growth on some down a bit...but they aren't in any significant way 'well-groomed'. The 13th tee I showed is actually new last year and growth hasn't fully settled - so we let it go long until we see how things come along.

What you see on LHS of 1st tee is not a 'well-groomed' bank up to the tee - it's actually completely flat - level with the sleepers bordering it - it's just mowed slightly differently from the rest of the tee to border the teeing area.

Thankyou for your feedback

 

[Neilds]

I think that the club has almost done too good a job on the view from the clubhouse and people want this to be replicated throughout the rest of the course. This probably makes the tee box stand out even more as looking a bit scruffy.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I think that the club has almost done too good a job on the view from the clubhouse and people want this to be replicated throughout the rest of the course. This probably makes the tee box stand out even more as looking a bit scruffy.

Indeed - though in truth the view from the clubhouse is not really typical of much of the course and how we try our best to fit in with nature - other than being very simple and natural. And as said - some would have it that what you see from the clubhouse should be a bit 'fancier'...I really like that we keep int very simple.

Note that we have a little public lane/road running between the clubhouse and the course...we have no fencing and so are completely open to the public. the long grass and ditch you see are our deterrent to interlopers.

 

[Crazyface]

The question seems to be the one I have to answer both about myself and my course.

I have to answer it after nearly three years of me hearing 'issues'...commentary, observations and complaints, of members; and it's something I've been thinking about (a lot) since a four ball match yesterday during which all the usual 'issues' were aired by the three members I was playing with. What am I missing? Am I the only member or club golfer who thinks as I do? And if I am what do the others expect and why?

Background: three years ago we started on a major rufurbishment of our clubhouse member and public areas - it has cost a lot of money. So the cry went up - Could we instead not spend it on the course...we don't need this development. Three years later we have a transformed clubhouse, one that by wide and general consent of members and visitors is superb - and those who questioned it? Mostly silent now or accepting out was the right thing to do.

More recently this Spring we have spent a lot of money re-routing the closing half of our 2nd hole; and next Spring we open the 'new' 2nd and will build a new 'World Class' Academy area on the part of the 2nd no longer used. Everyone happy. Of course not. So the same cry as gone up and is still loud...Could we instead not spend it on the course...we don't need this development.

So what's the issue?

The truth seems to be that many, if not most, members seem to see a course that is untidy; scruffy, too rough round the edges, path edges not bordered; banking to raised tees not mown, and so on...and oh yes...there aren't enough ball washers, litter bins, broken tee bins etc around the course. We should instead spend the money on these things - spruce everything up; make it look nice. Not wasting our time making the course a better challenge. And btw the new 2nd is out of character they say...and I observe that we are half heathland; half heathland/parkland, so what 'character' are they talking abut. Anyway...that's another conversation.

The course so many members see is not the one they want to see - they seem to want a Hankley - just 3 miles away; a Hindhead not 5miles or a Liphook just 15. We pay a lot for our membership...they say - we deserve 'better'. They think that visitors will see as they do - a scruffy untidy course.

So to answer my question. What do I see when I look at my course - and is it what I want?

To the first part I see a course that reflects an approach that is to have a course that is as natural as possible; one that is not afraid to let, and allows, nature have it's say as unconstrained as is reasonable. I see a course where the focus is on providing playing surfaces and conditions as good as possible - the best tee surfaces; greens; green aprons; fairways and 1st cut rough we can achieve. A course that is uncluttered by course furniture - all of which is unnecessary (since we do well without at the moment). And that is what we have. Big open competition today and the course is looking and playing superbly.

Throw into the consideration the cost of labour and the cost and ecological impact of fertilizers, weeds killers. We want to minimize all of these.

To the 2nd part of my question. Is it what I want see of my course when I look at it. Absolutely. I don't want a manicured, cosmetically pretty course - a Hankley. That's another sort of club, another sort of course, and it's not what I want from my club. I want to play a course as close to the way courses were created way back in the day - working with nature rather than trying to constrain, control and even defeat it.

Sorry for going on a bit...it's been bothering me and I had to get it 'down on paper'

Maybe it's just me.

We lost ten members two years ago due to scruffy course. Clubhouse is lovely, but no one bothers with it. The side but if a course needs to be as good as he main bits as the members NOTICE!!!!