How can you compete

[HomerJSimpson]

Played in the Masters today - 36 holes medal. I left before the field had finished but it seems the result is a formality. We had a guy today off 23 who went round in gross 79 to card a first round nett 56!!!!!!

He went out in the second round and shot 100 gross (nett 77 or +7) to finish seven under nett. Looks like he'll be off around 17 next weekend. Has anyone else faced such impossible odds. Fair play to him as he obviously had a career round but guys coming in with two respectable rounds of 69, 69 (-2) and weren't even in the hunt.

 

[Imurg]

That's what High Handicappers can do. Its not unfair but it is harsh on the rest of the field.

As I was injured last year at the Prizewinners comp I couldn't play - just as well. The winner, playing off 16 came in +3 gross. Nett 58. I'd have needed to shoot -3 to compete!!

 

[ColinR]

A good reason to have two prizes...

1. Lowest Gross ( good for the low handicappers )
2. Lowest nett ( good for the bandits !! )

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I can understand how higher handicappers can get away with it in stablefords but in a medal its a different ball game. He obviously played well you can't argue. It was interesting to see him this afternoon though. He got pinged with an illegal drop at the 1st. He was adjacent to a molehill and just picked the ball up and dropped it (admittedly within a club length) but hadn't marked the original point or ascertained the nearest point of relief. Fortunately he had time to add the penalty shots onto the score before signing!!!!

The group he was in started two groups in front but by the 12th they were in front of us having let others through. He seemed to take hundreds having driven into bushes, swished around, dropped (under penalty) hacked it back into the same bushes, taken a line of sight drop and then got back onto the fairway.

At the end of the day it did make the second round a bit anit-climatic as most felt it was only a contest for 2nd place. I'm presuming he checked and signed his card correctly and won't get D/Q'd so well done to him.

 

[kid2]

I can understand how higher handicappers can get away with it in stablefords but in a medal its a different ball game. He obviously played well you can't argue. It was interesting to see him this afternoon though. He got pinged with an illegal drop at the 1st. He was adjacent to a molehill and just picked the ball up and dropped it (admittedly within a club length) but hadn't marked the original point or ascertained the nearest point of relief. Fortunately he had time to add the penalty shots onto the score before signing!!!!

The group he was in started two groups in front but by the 12th they were in front of us having let others through. He seemed to take hundreds having driven into bushes, swished around, dropped (under penalty) hacked it back into the same bushes, taken a line of sight drop and then got back onto the fairway.

At the end of the day it did make the second round a bit anit-climatic as most felt it was only a contest for 2nd place. I'm presuming he checked and signed his card correctly and won't get D/Q'd so well done to him.

Hey Homer....I agree totally with what your saying...... As a high Handicapper myself ( 21 ) Trouble with me is i know im actually better as do my playing partners....They reckon i should be off around 14 - 16 and say that im good enough to be playing off that..... I only recieved my handicap in may as i wanted to learn the rules the course and not to embarrass myself in front of other players and have only played in the 1 Comp last weekend as i told you i finished with 34 points being out of 2 holes and having a 7 on a par 3. Now im not saying that the person that you witnessed today was pulling but its one thing i cant abide by even though im new to the game i HATE CHEATS.
I would get satisfaction out of telling people that i was off single figures instead of playing to an exaggerated handicap and conctantly being in the prizes....... I think that golf is the only game whereby your handicap is a measure of your ability....Its a crying shame that some people are promoting themselves worse than what they actually are

 

[Region3]

Just to play devils advocate for the sake of fairness, not all high handicappers shooting low rounds are necessarily on the fiddle, as his second round 100 shows (unless you think that was done on purpose to make it look less obvious?).

He's used 40% of his handicap (+9 off 23).

How many here think they're capable of playing to 40% of their handicap? I certainly think I could if things went my way. It doesn't mean I'm a bandit off 11 just because it's possible I could shoot 76 one day.

 

[Tommo21]

Played in the Masters today - 36 holes medal. I left before the field had finished but it seems the result is a formality. We had a guy today off 23 who went round in gross 79 to card a first round nett 56!!!!!!

He went out in the second round and shot 100 gross (nett 77 or +7) to finish seven under nett. Looks like he'll be off around 17 next weekend. Has anyone else faced such impossible odds. Fair play to him as he obviously had a career round but guys coming in with two respectable rounds of 69, 69 (-2) and weren't even in the hunt.

Maybe someone else used his card and shot the better round.

 

[jammydodger]

I dont think shooting 7 under your handicap over 2 rounds is anything to get upset about tbh. If the comp was a 1 round affair then thats a bit harsh on everyone else but over 2 rounds I dont see the problem.

I've played many many 36 hole comps and 7 under h/c isnt a rare thing at all to see. I myself have been 10 under for 2 rounds off 7 before..Youre just taking the 1 round and focusing on that. We see the pros shoot 62 one day and 77 the next

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Jammy

I'm not upset at all. Fair play to the guy who made sure he only had to stand up in the 2nd round to win. No problems with it at all but my point was that it made it hard to get competitive for the 2nd round knowing the event was already won. The fact that he had a horror in the 2nd round was expected by the wise old sages (pressure, fatigue, high handicap = inconsistancy) actually made it worse for the others and it would have felt better if he'd done the same again.

I think he's been cut from 23-17 so I'm not sure he'll be repeating the feat soon. Anyone kow how many stableford points it would have been and would it have been a record at your club

 

[clubchamp07]

if it's a par 72 course he would of had 52 points

 

[Parmo]

I dream of getting cut, I even asked the comp sec yesterday to cut me but to no avail.

 

[JezzE]

He got pinged with an illegal drop at the 1st. He was adjacent to a molehill and just picked the ball up and dropped it (admittedly within a club length) but hadn't marked the original point or ascertained the nearest point of relief. Fortunately he had time to add the penalty shots onto the score before signing!!!!

Homer,
Just to clarify, it may well be that this guy should not have been penalised in these circumstances provided he dropped within one club length and did not play from a place he was not entitled too (ie it was still at the nearest point of relief regardless of his failure to mark and measure)
The Rules of Golf only recommend procedures to adopt when taking relief (they use the word 'should' rather than 'must'), but there is no actual legal obligation to mark either the point where the ball was or the extent of one club length (though clearly it is advisable, and indeed best practice to do so)

 

[Ethan]

A nett 56 would not contain too many holes where the score was higher than an even 0 points, so for a par 72, that would be 16 points on top of the nett level 36, so 52. (51 on a par 71 etc)

 

[AliB]

Homer
You played 2 comp rounds in 2 days?
I guess you are back on your feet, then!
Sympathise with your post - 2nd round must have felt pretty futile.
Now just worrying may get accused of banditry at new place!

AliB

 

[justhitthething]

I can understand how higher handicappers can get away with it in stablefords but in a medal its a different ball game. He obviously played well you can't argue. It was interesting to see him this afternoon though. He got pinged with an illegal drop at the 1st. He was adjacent to a molehill and just picked the ball up and dropped it (admittedly within a club length) but hadn't marked the original point or ascertained the nearest point of relief. Fortunately he had time to add the penalty shots onto the score before signing!!!!

The group he was in started two groups in front but by the 12th they were in front of us having let others through. He seemed to take hundreds having driven into bushes, swished around, dropped (under penalty) hacked it back into the same bushes, taken a line of sight drop and then got back onto the fairway.

At the end of the day it did make the second round a bit anit-climatic as most felt it was only a contest for 2nd place. I'm presuming he checked and signed his card correctly and won't get D/Q'd so well done to him.

Hey Homer....I agree totally with what your saying...... As a high Handicapper myself ( 21 ) Trouble with me is i know im actually better as do my playing partners....They reckon i should be off around 14 - 16 and say that im good enough to be playing off that..... I only recieved my handicap in may as i wanted to learn the rules the course and not to embarrass myself in front of other players and have only played in the 1 Comp last weekend as i told you i finished with 34 points being out of 2 holes and having a 7 on a par 3. Now im not saying that the person that you witnessed today was pulling but its one thing i cant abide by even though im new to the game i HATE CHEATS.
I would get satisfaction out of telling people that i was off single figures instead of playing to an exaggerated handicap and conctantly being in the prizes....... I think that golf is the only game whereby your handicap is a measure of your ability....Its a crying shame that some people are promoting themselves worse than what they actually are

I have to say this is probably the thing that iritates me the most about golf.
Why when someone plays well and shoots a good score is there an immediate assumption that hes cheated. In cricket, duck today, 100 tomorrow noone bats an eyelid.
The handicap system is what makes our game great. In no other sport can people of such wide rangeing abilities compete with each other as equals.
Like most people I started on 28 handicap and the majority of my prize winning was as I was improving faster than the handicap could cope with. Now im off 9, I very rarely win. not because higher handicappers are cheating, but because I reached my level and spend my time maintaining my handicap and they havent yet.-
Live with it fellas and celebrate his success.

 

[JezzE]

Agree totally with justhitthething

The whole bandit thing in golf is completely overplayed by people who temporarily forget their own inconsistencies

Take a professional like our columnist Graeme McDowell for example. In this year's Irish Open he shot 77 in the first round and 61 in the second - a massive 16 shot difference. If pros had handicaps, what would you give him on that basis?

If even pros can be hugely inconsistent why should it be so much of a surprise when we produce the goods one day and can't hit our hat the next

My observation is that when individuals have days like that themselves they would describe them as 'the round of their life' or a 'one in a million chance'; when other people have unbelievably good rounds they are instantly labelled cheats or bandits?

As I've said before in the mag, I've only ever met one genuine handicap-protecting bandit in 25 years of playing. So I've either led a very sheltered golfing life or they're not as commonplace as every exceptionally good score would have us believe...

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Jezz

I don't know the full ins and outs other than it was reported to one of my playing partners (the handicap secretary) that it had happened and I think he was going to ask the guy for how he took the drop after the event. I left after a quick drink so not sure how it was resolved but as he's been declared the winner I assume there was no case to answer or he corrected the card and signed for the revised and correct score.

To be fair to justhiitingthething, there was no animosity at all in the clubhouse at lunchtime yesterday and everyone was genuinely thrilled for the guy to have done so well. There was loads of banter and I think the guy was enjoying his moment in the sun. However there was still the 2nd round to go and even though the guy had it in the bag, the round had to be completed and within the rules of golf. If someone claims to have seen an illegal drop it was only fair on the field to raise the matter. He won anyway so the matter has been forgotten.

I'm like you and came down from 20-11 and picked up most of my wins in the higher teen bracket or when medals are split into divisions so you are competing against guys in a similar bracket. The main gold letter or majors are tough nuts for lower handicappers to crack but its what we go out to achieve.

I've no problems with the guy winning and thought it was remarkable achievement.

 

[justhitthething]

Jezz

I don't know the full ins and outs other than it was reported to one of my playing partners (the handicap secretary) that it had happened and I think he was going to ask the guy for how he took the drop after the event. I left after a quick drink so not sure how it was resolved but as he's been declared the winner I assume there was no case to answer or he corrected the card and signed for the revised and correct score.

To be fair to justhiitingthething, there was no animosity at all in the clubhouse at lunchtime yesterday and everyone was genuinely thrilled for the guy to have done so well. There was loads of banter and I think the guy was enjoying his moment in the sun. However there was still the 2nd round to go and even though the guy had it in the bag, the round had to be completed and within the rules of golf. If someone claims to have seen an illegal drop it was only fair on the field to raise the matter. He won anyway so the matter has been forgotten.

I'm like you and came down from 20-11 and picked up most of my wins in the higher teen bracket or when medals are split into divisions so you are competing against guys in a similar bracket. The main gold letter or majors are tough nuts for lower handicappers to crack but its what we go out to achieve.

I've no problems with the guy winning and thought it was remarkable achievement.

When we talk about hundresds of shots in bushes, illegal drops, possible dqs, Im not sure 'Iv no problem with the guy winning' is the conclusion that im meant to come to.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I was following in the group behind so could see all the escapades going on in front which is how I knew what was happening. The illegal drop was actually brought to my partners attention (H/C secretary) as we were walking off the first tee so nothing to do with me but someone else thought they saw wrongdoing and reported it. Jealousy or acting in good faith I couldn't answer

I finished 8th and managed a 0.4 cut so I'm pretty happy all round especially as the first round included a 7 and a 9 (finished + 4 nett) and was only 7 over gross standing on 17 before running up a 7 (quadruple bogey) so my game is coming back.

 

[viscount17]

there are still a lot of false assumptions about handicapping.

1. it does <u>not</u> create a 'level' playing field. there is an in-built bias (in both CONGU and USGA) toward the lower handicapper. it's not much but it is there.

2. in any competition with a large enough entry the odds are that a high handicapper could shoot a low score.

3. in any one-on-one or low entry competition the odds are that a low handicapper will win.

it's simple statistics. on a par 4 the range of scores for a low handicapper is likely to be 2 to 6 (average 4.?). for a high handicapper the range is 2 to 9 (average 6.?). but both are capable of scoring the 2's and 3's just as both are capable of scoring 5's and 6's.