hitting the flag

[dgparry]

here's the scenario
your putting up the green from 20 yds.
one of your your playing partners is tending the flag.
Off goes your putt...........tracking straight for the hole
Flag bearer isn't paying attention, because he is still holding a post mortem about his drive.
Ball strikes pin and finishes 6" to left of hole.
Flag bearer then springs to life exclaiming "2 shot penalty"

My view once flag is tended it becomes responsibility of the tender. therefore if it is struck by the ball no penalty should be incurred. (unless pairs)

This is an actual Happening..........good job final result unaffectected

Discuss!

Driver Ping G20,
Woods 3W & 5W Cleveland DST,
Hybrids 3 & 4 Cleveland DST,
Irons 6 -PW Wilson Di11.
Wedges Cleveland CG14 46, 50, 56 Degree,
Putter Ping Karsten B60,
Ball Titleist NXT Tour
H/cap 13.3

Haigh Hall GC (Wigan)

www.haighhall-golfclub.co.uk/

 

[palindromicbob]

If it had been deliberate to cause you to incur the penalty they'd be disqualified.

If it had been done to influence the movement of the ball then they'd get the 2 stroke and possible DQ.

In the situation you describe though then you are at fault. The flag is tended for you to take you putt. Because they were tending the flag prior to the stroke you have effectively given them authority on your behalf to do so. The tendee is your responsibility as you are the one who appoints them (so to speak). They failed in their task due to distraction rather than out of malice. So under the rules as they stand. Tough luck. In future tell them to pay attention or take the flag out yourself prior to the putt.

 

[backwoodsman]

paindromicbob has it right.

Rules are quite explicit - once he's tending the flag, he and the flag are your responsibility. Once you knew the ball was heading on a good line, a shout to the dozy **** to wake him up would have been in order.

 

[Colin L]

As Palindromic Bob says, and that means you incur a 2 stroke penalty and play the ball as it lies.

It's a bit rich that the guy whose inattention caused this should be so enthusiastic about your incurring the penalty but if you don't think this suggests it was done deliberately, then it's just bad manners to gloat and he owes you a pint. Owing a pint will not be found as a penalty in the Rules of Golf, but is not a bad idea in the interests of making up and keeping the peace. He can buy it for you after he comes back from A&E having had the flagstick removed.

Your reference is Rule 17-3 and Decision 17-3/2 covers the exact circumstances of what happened.

http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Decision-17/#17-3/2

 

[bladeplayer]

jeepers thats fair poor rule , if youd asked an opponent & he messed up ....

whats the penalty for A giving B a slap in the head ?

 

[bluewolf]

Was the ball on the green to start with? Seems a large green for Haigh Hall. Maybe the 2nd?

 

[duncan mackie]

Was the ball on the green to start with?

irrelevant to the ruling - same thing applies either way.

 

[bluewolf]

At what point does the rule apply? When you ask someone to tend the flag? What if they tend it without being asked? Forgive my ignorance, it's early and I had a few too many Gins last night. Can't get the taste of juniper out of my mouth.

 

[chrisd]

At what point does the rule apply? When you ask someone to tend the flag? What if they tend it without being asked? Forgive my ignorance, it's early and I had a few too many Gins last night. Can't get the taste of juniper out of my mouth.

When the player attends it, the OP was on the green so it's either attended or out of the hole, so if its attended the rule applies.

 

[bluewolf]

But if the OP was putting from the fringe?

 

[Colin L]

But if the OP was putting from the fringe?

See post #7. It doesn't matter where the ball is played from. Perhaps this will clarify some of the ramifications.

If you hit an unattended flagstick there is no penalty if your ball was off the green
If you hit an unattended flagstick there is a 2 stroke/ loss of hole penalty if your ball was on the green
If you hit an attended flagstick from anywhere, there is 2 stroke/loss of hole penalty

 

[louise_a]

But if the OP was putting from the fringe?

If the flag is being attended and the ball strikes the stick from anywhere it is a penalty. If its not being attended then there is no penalty from off the green.

 

[Colin L]

Snap!

 

[bluewolf]

Beautiful.
Tonight it'll be good Irish single malt. Just to avoid any further confusion.

 

[6inchcup]

:thup:

At what point does the rule apply? When you ask someone to tend the flag? What if they tend it without being asked? Forgive my ignorance, it's early and I had a few too many Gins last night. Can't get the taste of juniper out of my mouth.

is she a posh bird from scholes then blue!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[MashieNiblick]

At what point does the rule apply? When you ask someone to tend the flag? What if they tend it without being asked?

If someone attends the flag (which includes standing near to it) or removes it without being asked but with a player's knowledge and the player doesn't object, then the player is deemed to have authorised it. Note 2 to Rule 17-1.

If the player doesn't authorise it, Rule 17-2 - Unauthorised Attendance - applies

"If an opponent or his caddie in match play or a fellow-competitor or his caddie in stroke play, without the player’s authority or prior knowledge, attends, removes or holds up the flagstick during the stroke or while the ball is in motion, and the act might influence the movement of the ball, the opponent or fellow-competitor incurs the applicable penalty.

*PENALTY FOR BREACH OF RULE 17-1 or 17-2:
Match play – Loss of hole; Stroke play – Two strokes.
*In stroke play, if a breach of Rule 17-2 occurs and the competitor’s ball subsequently strikes the flagstick, the person attending or holding it or anything carried by him, the competitor incurs no penalty. The ball is played as it lies, except that if the stroke was made on the putting green, the stroke is cancelled and the ball must be replaced and replayed."

Note the movement of the ball doesn't have to actually be affected for the penalty to apply. It applies even if the ball might have been affected - Decisions 17-2/1 and 17-2/2. I do wonder if the Rules makers are a bit too harsh sometimes.

 

[6inchcup]

in all the years of playing i have never asked for the flag to be tended when i was off the green,and from 20 yds,i would be using a wedge,to much ground to cover with a putter unless the approach was cut like a green and at haigh hall high unlikely,i have the pin either IN or OUT unless i'm on the green then will have it tended if a long putt

 

[bluewolf]

:thup:is she a posh bird from scholes then blue!!!!!!!!!!!!

There are no posh birds in Scholes, as you well know. Imported 47% Bombay Sapphire. Lovely going down, but lingers long on the tongue.

 

[dgparry]

jeepers thats fair poor rule , if youd asked an opponent & he messed up ....

whats the penalty for A giving B a slap in the head ?

Thanks for all the replies, thats cleared that rule up. This is the reply i liked the best:cheers:

 

[dgparry]

Was the ball on the green to start with? Seems a large green for Haigh Hall. Maybe the 2nd?

it was on the 18th from the back up the slope to the front. yardage probably wrong as i hit my drives 285yds:rofl: