Hitting reeds in a water hazard?

[Beezerk]

Quick one for you.
Played a local course yesterday and I hit a shot on a par 5 which finished a few inches from a yellow staked water hazard. The ball wasn't in the hazard but there were some reeds in the hazard which were in front of me, at this point I must state the reeds were not in the way of my intended shot if that makes sense.
I took a practice swing and clattered some of the reeds with my follow through, my pp who was desperate to win 😉 called a penalty but I claimed they weren't affecting my intended shot so common sense prevails.
Can't find much about this on the internet, should I have taken a penalty?

 

[rulefan]

Were they in the area of your intended swing?

 

[rulie]

Were they in the area of your intended swing?

Even if they were in the area of your intended swing, did you improve the area of your intended swing by your actions? Touching them or breaking one may not have improved that area.

 

[rulefan]

Even if they were in the area of your intended swing, did you improve the area of your intended swing by your actions? Touching them or breaking one may not have improved that area.

That would possibly have been my second question but it may have been redundant.

 

[Beezerk]

Even if they were in the area of your intended swing, did you improve the area of your intended swing by your actions? Touching them or breaking one may not have improved that area.

They were in the area of my intended swing but they were dead reeds and weren't impeding my shot at all, it was just a case of knowing they were going to get smashed during my follow through. Put in other words, breaking a couple with my practice swing made no difference to my shot at all.

 

[Colin L]

They were in the area of my intended swing but they were dead reeds and weren't impeding my shot at all, it was just a case of knowing they were going to get smashed during my follow through. Put in other words, breaking a couple with my practice swing made no difference to my shot at all.

Hmmmm. You “clattered” some reeds in the area of your intended swing which were going to get smashed during your follow through. So didn’t those that got smashed when you clattered them with your practice swing make your actual stroke easier?

 

[Beezerk]

Hmmmm. You “clattered” some reeds in the area of your intended swing which were going to get smashed during your follow through. So didn’t some of them get smashed when you clattered them with your practice swing?

Yes that's my problem, I hit some with my practice swing, I guess my question is then, what is deemed as improving your swing area in real life situations? If you hit something in front of you which isn't actually affecting your shot/swing path, is it a penalty?

 

[rulefan]

Were the reeds still in the area of your swing when you made your real stroke? Did you hit any with your stroke?

 

[mikejohnchapman]

H'm I think you are struggling here. If you are taking a practice swing near your ball and alter the landscape in any way you are in danger of improving your area of intended swing. No problem about hitting the reeds in your real stroke or hitting them in a practice swing if you did it well away from your ball. If however you just stood near but parallel with your ball and had a swish which broke some reeds I think your PP was right.

 

[oltimer]

r13-2 "a player must not improve the area of his intended swing" (or his line of play) - sounds like you did this.

 

[Beezerk]

Were the reeds still in the area of your swing when you made your real stroke? Did you hit any with your stroke?

Yes I still hit some of them, for me it was like I was on the end of a fairway with some whispy grass in front of me, it isn't in my way (as in it isn't going to affect my swing or shot at all) so I didn't benefit from catching some with my practice swing, ergo I didn't improve my lie.
I'm happy to be shown the error of my ways though if indeed I should have been penalised.

 

[Beezerk]

H'm I think you are struggling here. If you are taking a practice swing near your ball and alter the landscape in any way you are in danger of improving your area of intended swing. No problem about hitting the reeds in your real stroke or hitting them in a practice swing if you did it well away from your ball. If however you just stood near but parallel with your ball and had a swish which broke some reeds I think your PP was right.

Yes I did the latter knowing the reeds were dead, thin and crispy so they wouldn't affect my swing. Was a funny one as my stance was right on the edge of the hazard and I was laughing at the time and just did it naturally 😂

 

[Beezerk]

Were the reeds still in the area of your swing when you made your real stroke? Did you hit any with your stroke?

Actually, thinking about it I'm not sure if I did hit any reeds during my real stroke.
It was a funny one, there were really short reeds and then two random tall reeds, these two were about a metre apart and my ball was bang in the middle of them. I even joked to my PP that the reeds had left a nice open gate for me. I clattered the one to the left with my practice swing but I don't know for certain if I'd have hit it with my real swing.

 

[rulefan]

Actually, thinking about it I'm not sure if I did hit any reeds during my real stroke.
It was a funny one, there were really short reeds and then two random tall reeds, these two were about a metre apart and my ball was bang in the middle of them. I even joked to my PP that the reeds had left a nice open gate for me. I clattered the one to the left with my practice swing but I don't know for certain if I'd have hit it with my real swing.

I reckon it is too difficult to call without seeing the area and a reconstruction of the situation.

 

[Beezerk]

I reckon it is too difficult to call without seeing the area and a reconstruction of the situation.

That's what I mean, for me they weren't in my way for my shot but I wondered if because they were in a hazard it made a difference when I'd hit them with my practice swing.

 

[rulefan]

That's what I mean, for me they weren't in my way for my shot but I wondered if because they were in a hazard it made a difference when I'd hit them with my practice swing.

The fact that the reeds were in the hazard is not relevant. The ball wasn't.
The question is 'did you improve the area of your line of swing?'

 

[Fyldewhite]

Couple of things. The fact that they were in a hazard makes no difference at all. It's the same rule even if it was just long grass or bushes nowhere near a hazard. Also, what happened in your real swing is immaterial. You could bring down a small tree with that and there would be no penalty.

The question is, when you took your practice swing, did you improve the area of your intended swing for the real shot? (and that includes the follow through). This is subjective and will be difficult to get an exact answer to on here as we weren't there. The question you have to ask yourself is was the actual shot in any way easier as a result of what you did on your practice swing? If it was then you should penalise yourself. If not then you haven't broken the rule. From what you have said it does sound to me to be at least questionable. In this situation it's always advisable to stay well away from the ball when taking a practice swing. You can usually find a similar swing area with the same issues a few yards away and you can practice swing there to your hearts content knowing you can't break this rule. When you are practice swinging next to the ball be very careful not to break anything.

 

[Beezerk]

Couple of things. The fact that they were in a hazard makes no difference at all. It's the same rule even if it was just long grass or bushes nowhere near a hazard. Also, what happened in your real swing is immaterial. You could bring down a small tree with that and there would be no penalty.

The question is, when you took your practice swing, did you improve the area of your intended swing for the real shot? (and that includes the follow through). This is subjective and will be difficult to get an exact answer to on here as we weren't there. The question you have to ask yourself is was the actual shot in any way easier as a result of what you did on your practice swing? If it was then you should penalise yourself. If not then you haven't broken the rule. From what you have said it does sound to me to be at least questionable. In this situation it's always advisable to stay well away from the ball when taking a practice swing. You can usually find a similar swing area with the same issues a few yards away and you can practice swing there to your hearts content knowing you can't break this rule. When you are practice swinging next to the ball be very careful not to break anything.

Thanks, lesson definitely learned.