Hi and Help

[ForeLeftagain]

Hi - newbie here to the forum, although have enjoyed reading the various posts over the last few months before plucking up the courage to post.

I've only just started playing golf properly (was always a once or twice a year player - spent more time playing cricket at weekends).

PLayed in a bounce game on sunday with a few mates, and between us we lost a number of plugged/sunk balls that we had watched land on the fairway, as it was we were unsure of the rule, so we agreed to drop a ball as close to where we'd seen it land, with a 1 shot penalty. It was only when i got home i wondered whether rule 25-1c "Ball in abnormal ground condition not found" could have been applied.

Any help greatfully received - as i'm confused

 

[rulefan]

You will see from the Definition that rule 25-1c does not apply unless the area the ball was in had been declared to be Ground Under Repair.

An “abnormal ground condition” is any casual water, ground under repair or hole, cast or runway on the course made by a burrowing animal, a reptile or a bird.

As, presumably, the area had not been declared GUR then if you can't find your ball within 5 minutes of starting to search, then your only option is to go back and play the shot again with a 1 stroke penalty.

 

[chrisd]

Whilst Rulefan is absolutely correct ( to be fair he always is) in a bounce game, and to speed things up, most of us do odd rule changes that we are all agreed on, sticklers for the rules otherwise!

 

[davemc1]

Nothing to add of any help to this, but this rule is one of my pet hates. How can it be possible to hit a perfectly decent shot only to be punished effectively 2 shots? Plus adds at least 10 mins to a round, slowing up a game everybody and their gran are trying to speed up. Maybe a one stroke penalty and play from where you all agree it landed would a better solution? Just a thought...

Oh, and welcome matey

 

[atticusfinch]

How do you know it was a perfectly decent shot if you cannot find it?

Relief from bad situations must conform to basic principles of the game. One of those principles is that the ball is advanced to the hole by golf strokes, not by carrying the ball forward. Your solution does not do that because it is not based on the known position of the ball (or the position you can ascertain with virtual certainty). Without a reference point relief is not possible because it would allow the ball to be advanced without a stroke from a place that would provide as accurate a continuation as possible of the original stroke.

 

[ForeLeftagain]

Hi, thanks everyone, cleared that up for me, although agree with dave very very frustrating, lost 5 in the fairway. Oh well, being on the course beats being in the office

 

[pbrown7582]

Hi, thanks everyone, cleared that up for me, although agree with dave very very frustrating, lost 5 in the fairway. Oh well, being on the course beats being in the office

Hello and welcome enjoy

If it was that bad course should of been closed IMO.

 

[daymond]

pbrown beat me to it. As you were playing with mates I think you would, in equity, be well within your rights to agree to take drops as near as possible to where your ball, on the fairway, could reasonably be expected to be.
Competitive golf in those conditions would have been called off.
Welcome.

 

[London mike 61]

Welcome to the forum mate !

 

[CMAC]

pbrown beat me to it. As you were playing with mates I think you would, in equity, be well within your rights to agree to take drops as near as possible to where your ball, on the fairway, could reasonably be expected to be.
Competitive golf in those conditions would have been called off.
Welcome.

standard stuff for fairways 2 summers ago and this winter, wet wet wet.

See a ball 'land' on fairway but no bounce as it goes well under, very unfair and should be classed the same as ball 'lost' in casual water if all agreed.

 

[rulefan]

How would you determine the margin of the casual water in order to take the drop?

 

[woody69]

You lost 5 balls that landed sweetly on the fairway and just sunk from view? I don't think I'd enjoy playing that course very much!

 

[atticusfinch]

standard stuff for fairways 2 summers ago and this winter, wet wet wet.

See a ball 'land' on fairway but no bounce as it goes well under, very unfair and should be classed the same as ball 'lost' in casual water if all agreed.

When you have to determine an unknown fact in order to apply a rule of golf, you must have virtual certainty of that fact. That means almost 99 percent. A very high bar. The agreement of your buddies should be considered but it is not the final determiner. Your group is not a democracy, you are a dictator responsible for all decisions concerning your ball.

To take relief from a ball lost in casual water you must first determine that it the ball is indeed in the casual water and not just a lost ball. Next you must determine the margins of the casual water. As those will not be marked like a water hazard is, the boundaries can be troublesome. Finally you must determine where the ball crossed the boundary. If you cannot establish any of these facts to within 99% certainty, you must play a lost ball.

 

[Foxholer]

When you have to determine an unknown fact in order to apply a rule of golf, you must have virtual certainty of that fact. That means almost 99 percent. A very high bar. The agreement of your buddies should be considered but it is not the final determiner. Your group is not a democracy, you are a dictator responsible for all decisions concerning your ball.

To take relief from a ball lost in casual water you must first determine that it the ball is indeed in the casual water and not just a lost ball. Next you must determine the margins of the casual water. As those will not be marked like a water hazard is, the boundaries can be troublesome. Finally you must determine where the ball crossed the boundary. If you cannot establish any of these facts to within 99% certainty, you must play a lost ball.

That is indeed how Rules of Golf work - and rightly so.

In bounce games, Rules of Golf are often parked - for the sake of making the particular game more enjoyable.

As long as you know which style you are playing, all is good!

 

[CMAC]

When you have to determine an unknown fact in order to apply a rule of golf, you must have virtual certainty of that fact. That means almost 99 percent. A very high bar. The agreement of your buddies should be considered but it is not the final determiner. Your group is not a democracy, you are a dictator responsible for all decisions concerning your ball.

To take relief from a ball lost in casual water you must first determine that it the ball is indeed in the casual water and not just a lost ball. Next you must determine the margins of the casual water. As those will not be marked like a water hazard is, the boundaries can be troublesome. Finally you must determine where the ball crossed the boundary. If you cannot establish any of these facts to within 99% certainty, you must play a lost ball.

yup, all good and why I posted what I did

 

[clubchamp98]

That is indeed how Rules of Golf work - and rightly so.

In bounce games, Rules of Golf are often parked - for the sake of making the particular game more enjoyable.

As long as you know which style you are playing, all is good!

The problem with this though is some players cant and carry mates rules into the comps. I have seen it happen . Most admit they were unaware of the rules but some wont have it and quote what Dave always says on a Monday roll up. As long as you know what type you are playing NO problem . We used to play on a muni and had a local rule "free drop from a footprint in bunkers" because nobody ever raked them.

 

[Sid Rixon IV]

That is indeed how Rules of Golf work - and rightly so.

In bounce games, Rules of Golf are often parked - for the sake of making the particular game more enjoyable.

As long as you know which style you are playing, all is good!

Our course is notoriously wet in winter months yet kept open as much as possible.
As a result we have to agree certain "rules" in roll up games and in comps the most common being lift, clean and replace within 6" anywhere on the course. Also, if we agree that we saw a ball land in an area that is particularly wet and that ball cannot be found, we allow a ball to be placed without penalty (this is allowed in roll ups not comps)