help require regarding taking relief

[louise_a]

We are allowed to take relief from walls, we are also allowed to take relief from man made paths.

Today a ball landed on a path right up against a little wall, There was no easy place to drop the ball to take relief from the path due to the position of the wall and path.

My question is can a player take relief from the wall and drop onto the path? They would would then take the shot from the path.

This happened today and no one here is sure what the ruling is.

 

[atticusfinch]

You should follow the rules one step at a time. If the wall interferes as defined in the rule, drop according to the rule. If that leaves interference by the cart path you can take relief from that. Or you can reverse the order. Each time you drop from one obstruction it is a new situation to be judged afresh.

 

[pbrown7582]

Is the local rule covering relief from the paths optional or mandatory?

 

[louise_a]

relief from paths is optional.

 

[pbrown7582]

Don't see anything wrong with what happened then as AF states you take relief from the wall then you have the option to at from path of take relief from the path.

 

[rulefan]

Could you have played the ball if the path had not been there?

 

[louise_a]

the issue is with the wall, the ball could have been played from the path if the wall was not there.

 

[Birchy]

You can take relief from the wall and drop on path then take relief from the path?

Theres a bit like this at Bolton at the back of the 12th green.

 

[rulefan]

the issue is with the wall, the ball could have been played from the path if the wall was not there.

Unless the wall and path had been declared to be one obstruction, you must ignore one of the obstructions before determining what relief may be available.

The Exception to Rule 24-2 would seem to apply to taking relief from the wall first.

Exception: A player may not take relief under this Rule if (a) interference by anything other than an immovable obstruction makes the stroke clearly impracticable or (b) interference by an immovable obstruction would occur only through use of a clearly unreasonable stroke or an unnecessarily abnormal stance, swing or direction of play.

If the ball could not be played if the path was not not there, full relief from the path would have to be taken first ignoring the presence of the wall.
Then, if the wall itself interferes, take relief from that.

 

[atticusfinch]

I missed a local rule in her facts. What was it?

 

[louise_a]

After much discussion at the club and also involving 2 Lancashire referees, one of whom is a member of our club, the consenssus is that the path and wall are the same obstruction so the only way to drop on the path would be under a penalty by declaring the ball unplayable.

 

[rulefan]

Exception: A player may not take relief under this Rule if (a) interference by anything other than an immovable obstruction makes the stroke clearly impracticable or (b) interference by an immovable obstruction would occur only through use of a clearly unreasonable stroke or an unnecessarily abnormal stance, swing or direction of play.

Having quoted the exception, I am now wondering about the use of the word 'an' above.

Does this mean the specific obstruction from which relief is sought? Or any other obstruction which is also interfering?

 

[rulefan]

After much discussion at the club and also involving 2 Lancashire referees, one of whom is a member of our club, the consenssus is that the path and wall are the same obstruction so the only way to drop on the path would be under a penalty by declaring the ball unplayable.

On the assumption there was no local rule stating that, what was the factor which determined the conclusion that they are one IO?

Incidentally, given that relief is available from the whole IO, why would anyone want to drop on the path?

 

[FairwayDodger]

After much discussion at the club and also involving 2 Lancashire referees, one of whom is a member of our club, the consenssus is that the path and wall are the same obstruction so the only way to drop on the path would be under a penalty by declaring the ball unplayable.

So if it's the same obstruction doesn't that mean that NPR is away from both the wall and the path?

 

[rulefan]

It does.

 

[louise_a]

Incidentally, given that relief is available from the whole IO, why would anyone want to drop on the path?

One the left side of the path is a lateral hazard and on the right is a very steep wooded bank.

 

[Colin L]

Having quoted the exception, I am now wondering about the use of the word 'an' above.

Does this mean the specific obstruction from which relief is sought? Or any other obstruction which is also interfering?

I'd say that "an" has to refer to a different obstruction from the one relief is being taken from. Thus if a tree trunk made a stroke from a path impracticable you cannot take relief from the path whereas if it is a wall that makes the stroke impracticable you can. Seems to be a sensible way of making allowance for the very situation Louise has presented. You can take relief from the path even though the wall made a stroke impracticable and there is no need to take relief sequentially from the two obstructions.

That's on the basis of there being no definition of the two as a single obstruction. Like you, I'm puzzled as to why her Lancastrian friends were saying it was if there were no Local Rule to say so.

 

[louise_a]

I am going to take a photo and post it later tonight.

 

[Colin L]

I'd say that "an" has to refer to a different obstruction from the one relief is being taken from. Thus if a tree trunk made a stroke from a path impracticable you cannot take relief from the path whereas if it is a wall that makes the stroke impracticable you can. Seems to be a sensible way of making allowance for the very situation Louise has presented. You can take relief from the path even though the wall made a stroke impracticable and there is no need to take relief sequentially from the two obstructions.

That's on the basis of there being no definition of the two as a single obstruction. Like you, I'm puzzled as to why her Lancastrian friends were saying it was if there were no Local Rule to say so.

I've just awakened from an armchair snooze to find someone has written this under my name. Please disregard it till I have thought more consciously of the matter.

 

[louise_a]

well it turns out that the wall is classed as path edging and is part of the path so no relief o the path. Shame as it would have stopped me getting 0.1 back.