Hello and Help

[rustyh]

Firstly, Thank you to the forum for having me on board.

I'm still in a very newbie phase of golf, I'm about 8 months in and its going ok (in the sense I've not given up)

First thing of many I would like to try and correct is, I'm struggling with consistently getting under the ball on iron shots (I dont top it as sure, but I dont get much height and rarely leave a mark in the ground).
I have checked my swing in the mirror, and the general shape and movement seem ok, Im trying to get my hips to rotate and move forward on the down swings, etc.

Is the anything anyone can recommend?

I have been using a swingbyte 2 as well, so if it helps, here is some general data of 10 swings with a 6 iron

Note: Swing Path is In-Out

Impact Club Loft	Impact Lie Angle	Impact Club Face to Address Angle	Address Start Loft	Club Path	Shaft Lean	Attack Angle	Tempo
21.6	4.6	0.9	21.3	10.6	-2.3	-5.5	2.4
16.9	3.1	3.8	20.6	15.6	6.5	5.2	2.4
19.4	4.6	7.6	23.2	14.5	7.6	8.9	2.3
22.5	4.4	9.3	24.1	15.4	6.2	6.9	2.6
11.3	8.1	8.3	23.2	18.5	16.5	12.8	2.6
14.8	6.2	-1.2	21.9	16.2	6.2	5.6	3.2
18.1	6.1	6.8	20.7	15.1	8.4	8.2	2.6
6.3	8.1	5.4	19.7	23.0	14.3	14.6	2.5
16.8	4.8	3.6	23.8	11.4	8.6	9.5	2.6
4.0	5.2	-0.32	13.3	26.5	9.3	7.2	2.7
22.4	5.8	7.6	23.3	10.7	7.9	7.6	2.8

 

[Foxholer]

No need to try to get under the ball!

The loft of the club will do everything that needs to be done to get the ball in the air.

Numbers on SB seem to be a little inconsistent. I;d suggest that it's better to go see a Pro and get the basics sorted out first. Then gadgets like SB can be used to check consistency. And it's much better to observe the flight of the ball too!

 

[rustyh]

Thank you for the reply, much appreciated

Ive had a few lessons from a PGA coach, and they have been great, but just cant seem to hit it right still

 

[RGDave]

I've got to say, all those numbers mean nothing to me.

Keep going with the lessons, the rest'll come - it really will.

(in other words, don't panic... forget the analysis for a bit...)

 

[London mike 61]

Welcome to the forum!

There is plenty of advice on here but the best advice I can give is to find a pro that does group lessons and learn alongside other folks that are in the same position as you. Not only will it be cheaper but the pro will give you appropriate advice that helps YOUR swing.

You may well find that if you have the shaft leaning forward a bit at address , you will stand a better chance of getting a cleaner strike and the ball will get in the air without you trying to help it.

Good luck!

 

[rustyh]

Thanks Guys, one day I might hit a par!! lol

Do clubs have a big difference, or do they only make a difference once your at a decent level

I had some Wilson Pro Staff graphite shafts for a few months, but then gave some steels a go which i preferred. I only bought some very cheap steels though (make is Ryder ), would I benefit at reaching in to my pocket for a better set, or will they make no difference at my level?

 

[the_coach]

The SB chart refers to what club/s? What was the starting direction of flight, what was the curvature direction in relation to target what was the trajectory like, high, low, etc.

At impact your not trying to get the club under the ball that would imply you're perhaps trying to 'help' the ball up this is not what you should be trying to do. Hands get to the ball before the clubhead so leading a forward leaning shaft so giiving a -AoA (downwards attack angle with your irons) so ball first, contact the ground second. The lowest point of the swings arc is target side of the ball.

 

[rustyh]

Hi,

It relates to a 6 Iron

Here is one of the swings

https://my.swingbyte.com/e/20714608i

 

[the_coach]

In general you'll need to work to getting the in to out swing path down a ways, as 0º is the ball/target line you can see from the numbers just how big that inside to out path is in this particular swing, so you'd ideally look to bring it down to somewhere around +8º from what it is now, forward lean you'd ideally want somewhere around 6º forward shaft angle at impact, & somewhere around +4º with the face angle, this would give you a draw flight where the initial starting direction isn't wildly to the right of target, so producing a lesser curvature not a large curve.

But as said it depends what happening to your ball flight, but the numbers would suggest there's a pretty wide variation in what is happening through these various shots listed.

To get more of a handle on it, would need to see what you are actually doing in your body & arm motion going back & coming through impact in the swing motion.

 

[rustyh]

Im heading up the driving range again tomorrow, so will focus on the swing path. I will also try and get some video shots as well

In terms of the swing path, how do I knock 10 degree off to bring this down. What cause such a high angle?

 

[the_coach]

Im heading up the driving range again tomorrow, so will focus on the swing path. I will also try and get some video shots as well

In terms of the swing path, how do I knock 10 degree off to bring this down. What cause such a high angle?

Difficult to be exact without seeing what you are doing. But generally the club is coming down a ways behind your back so probably in what would be classed as a ways 'flat & then shallow path then you are swinging in direction through the ball a ways to the right of the target.
So you'd need to feel as you take the club back to the top of backswing it's more going so the shaft is over top of tour right shoulder then it comes down what we'd call more in front of your chest that way the swing to ball would come just a little ways inside the ball target line, through impact then it swings back left & up to finish over your left shoulder.

Try to think of the swing more like an inclined circle that the clubhead swings around you on.

Best if you can is to get a series of lessons to put you on the right track, before you get too many ingrained moves in the swing motion.

Also get set-up at address right because how you hold the handle & align the body can make you start to swing the wrong ways to start off so then to get back to ball you are forced to make a good ways too many compensatory moves.

 

[rustyh]

Ok, I think I understand

So the plane that my swing is currently one is too far back (behind my back so to speak), so the Red line I have added to the image is kind of the current plane. I need to bring that swing plane more upwards, so over my shoulders, like the blue line in the image

 

[Siren]

Go and have a lesson with a reputable pro, the best advice anyone can give you.

 

[rustyh]

Ive had lessons with a Senior PGA Pro, including one this week. And they didnt seem to pick up on my swing plane etc. Hence by asking a few questions

 

[the_coach]

Ok, I think I understand

So the plane that my swing is currently one is too far back (behind my back so to speak), so the Red line I have added to the image is kind of the current plane. I need to bring that swing plane more upwards, so over my shoulders, like the blue line in the image

View attachment 11813

As ever it depends on what else is happening, & what's happening to the ball flight re getting it to target.

But looking a this image as it is here, but bearing in mind this alone isn't telling the whole picture.

Also you mention the Pro had not mentioned it, that could be he wanted you to initially do this to start to negate something else. He will have if this is a series of lessons a good reason for doing things in a specific order.
If it was just a one off lesson not a series he would have then addressed what was the most pressing to look at in the time he had to do so. So you have to keep all of that in mind.
But presumably he must have given you something you should be paying attention to & working towards & how to practice this/these things.

But going back to that image you'd ideally want the red line to still be below the blue line but not by so much, but it could be you'd need to move the two make the blue less steep the red less flat, but I stress it could be, very difficult to give any concrete advice without seeing what the body arms & hands plus legs are actually doing.

In nearly all good swings the backswing plane is a little ways steeper than the downswing plane. The good news is you have at least got this the right ways around, many folks have the much worse scenario of the planes backswing/downswing being wildly the other ways around which can present a lot more issues.

If you can use this swing & get fairly consistent good centered strikes with the ball ending up largely where you want it to go then the swing motion might only need some fine tuning of some sort.

 

[Hacker Khan]

Hi, welcome to the forum. I also have a swingbyte 2 and it does give you a lot of data. Are those path figures all degrees for in to out? If so it looks like you have a very 'in to out' swing which is normally not a bad thing, but some of those angles look very high.

Also what were your 'face to path' figures like? I am assuming they must have been quite closed if you are coming at the ball with such an in to out swing or you will be constantly hitting right all the time?

I've found with my swingbyte that it does give you some good stats if you know what they mean. I'd argue the tool is really for instructors as they can easily interpret a lot of them. For example I had/still have at times a very closed clubface, leading to some nasty hooks. I can see it on swingbyte with my angles and even the club head position in the swing analysis. But getting rid of it is another thing. So I had a lesson with a pro who gave me a couple of things to thing about to negate it and also pointed out that I was flicking at the ball and not keeping a straight right wrist when I hit the ball (I'm a lefty and play badminton, hence the flick).

Does your pro know you have the swingbyte? If not then tell them, show them the stats and ask them which ones you need to concentrate on to get better. No point in trying to get the perfect angle of attack whilst at the same time trying to get the perfect swing path whilst at the same time trying to get the perfect tempo whilst at the same time trying to get the perfect face to path angle etc etc. As it will just do your head in and you will have far too many swing thoughts in your head, leading to analysis paralysis. Trust me, I've been there.

Incidentally, I've written to swingbyte saying if someone offered a service where they could analyse the data including the actual videos you can take whilst hitting the ball, they could make some dosh.

 

[rustyh]

Been focusing on getting my swing path down as mentioned, and I must say the swing felt alot more natural and helped alot. I dont a few down near the 9 degree mark, but most were around 11 - 12 degrees with is an improvement on the 18 - 19 degrees I was getting

Swing Byte Example from today - https://my.swingbyte.com/e/40a5c56di

Ive also done a small video of my swing for any comments

[video=youtube_share;PPkOAnb7da0]http://youtu.be/PPkOAnb7da0[/video]

 

[the_coach]

Couple of things to maybes focus on {at some point that right & left hand grip position will need looking at to get the left a little ways clockwise on the handle so at address looking down you can see 2&1/2 knuckles, the right hand will need to move the opposite way so counter clockwise with it more in the fingers not the palm of the right hand, so then if you looked at both hands the crease between both forefingers & thumbs are aligned more parallel & point to middle of your right shoulder. if you search my posts you'll see a couple of grip vids}

More pressing though at the moment is to get that ball position not so far back in your stance so it's about half a ball in front of the center of your chest, with your irons.

& also if you look at the swing motion you'll see how your head moves a ways to the right as you turn so your head ends up over your right foot, then it has to move back as you swing down to the ball.

On the backswing feel your shoulder/body turns around a more steady head position, so the heads not moving with the turn a ways to the right.
So feel your head doesn't go at all with the turn back then feel you swing down & past your chin, trust the loft on the club it will et the ball in the air you can see by the ways you rise up through impact you're trying to help that ball get up. Swing down feel you swing down & past your chin to a balanced finish, swing from the top of the backswing right ways through to the finish position the club just collects the ball on the way.

Good that your lower body initiates the downswing thats all good, just need to feel more that the turn is around a spot between your shoulder blades at top of your back just below your neck, that ways should be a little easier for you to turn back to the top without taking your head a ways right over your right foot. Feel more your left shoulder turns around that pivot point below back of your neck so the left shoulder has turned to be over your right thigh whilst feeling your head has hardly moved.
Hope that helps some.

 

[the_coach]

If you want you can follow these links to have a look at a good way of forming a neutral grip on the handle.


Left hand grip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMLpg38gEJE


Right hand grip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kG19zHrdiY&list=UUbY9OC4bMmAmqlcWhmQE3dQ

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Welcome along. Go back to your pro and have a chat about your issues and what you've worked on so far and explain the issues. I'm sure he'll sort it out quickly and easily