Hedge Marks Course Boundary

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Where you have a Local Rule that states:

All land beyond any hedge bounding the course is Out of Bounds

In respect of what part of the hedge to you assess whether a ball is out of bounds or not?

 

[chrisd]

None of it I'd say

 

[rulie]

Ask the author of the Local Rule?

 

[guest100718]

Where you have a Local Rule that states:

All land beyond any hedge bounding the course is Out of Bounds

In respect of what part of the hedge to you assess whether a ball is out of bounds or not?

Over it i guess

 

[Colin L]

I would say that if where a hedge defines out of bounds, the hedge itself must be out of bounds in the same way as boundary fence or boundary stake. The boundary line should be vertically below the outer limits of the hedge nearer the course. Which would be variable depending on when, if ever, the hedge was last cut.

 

[fundy]

Where you have a Local Rule that states:

All land beyond any hedge bounding the course is Out of Bounds

In respect of what part of the hedge to you assess whether a ball is out of bounds or not?

I would say that if where a hedge defines out of bounds, the hedge itself must be out of bounds in the same way as boundary fence or boundary stake. The boundary line should be vertically below the outer limits of the hedge nearer the course. Which would be variable depending on when, if ever, the hedge was last cut.

Id read the opposite because of how the rule is written. In the hedge is not beyond it in my book so if its not beyond the last part of hedge then I would deem it in bounds (and ask for a better local rule!)

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I would say that if where a hedge defines out of bounds, the hedge itself must be out of bounds in the same way as boundary fence or boundary stake. The boundary line should be vertically below the outer limits of the hedge nearer the course. Which would be variable depending on when, if ever, the hedge was last cut.

That is what I have been advised. It's a bit like the touchline in rugby - if any part of your body touches the line you are in touch (unlike football when what matters is the ball position and the whole ball must be over the whole line).

This is the LR at my own track and I know of very many occasions (and I have done it) when balls have been played from under a hedge; free relief drops taken from stakes within a hedge (relief from staked trees is mandatory), and penalty drops are taken from within a hedge due to ball unplayable.

I am guessing that a degree of common sense is required if a single, perhaps thin, branch of the hedge projects some distance from the hedge course side at the point where the ball lies? Though the rules don't really like 'common sense' - they tend to be pretty proscriptive.

 

[Imurg]

If the land beyond the hedge is OB then the hedge itself must be in bounds if you take the wording literally.
Effectively, the far edge of the hedge is the OB line. Therefore in the hedge must be in bounds..

 

[fundy]

That is what I have been advised. It's a bit like the touchline in rugby - if any part of your body touches the line you are in touch (unlike football when what matters is the ball position and the whole ball must be over the whole line).

This is the LR at my own track and I know of very many occasions (and I have done it) when balls have been played from under a hedge; free relief drops taken from stakes within a hedge (relief from staked trees is mandatory), and penalty drops are taken from within a hedge due to ball unplayable.

I am guessing that a degree of common sense is required if a single, perhaps thin, branch of the hedge projects some distance from the hedge course side at the point where the ball lies? Though the rules don't really like 'common sense' - they tend to be pretty proscriptive.

If the LR said the hedge was the boundary line then that would make sense, but the wording clearly says beyond the hedge

 

[Colin L]

Bear in mind what is said in the Definition of out of bounds [my emphasis]:


When out of bounds is defined by reference to stakes or a fence or as being beyond stakes or a fence, the out of bounds line is determined by the nearest inside points at ground level of the stakes or fence posts

Why would you not apply the same definition to a hedge?

 

[fundy]

Bear in mind what is said in the Definition of out of bounds [my emphasis]:


When out of bounds is defined by reference to stakes or a fence or as being beyond stakes or a fence, the out of bounds line is determined by the nearest inside points at ground level of the stakes or fence posts

Why would you not apply the same definition to a hedge?

because a fence or stakes are a few inches thick, a hedge could be 20 feet thick. i get your point but just about sums up the rules of golf that they want to redefine what a word like beyond means!

 

[Colin L]

because a fence or stakes are a few inches thick, a hedge could be 20 feet thick. i get your point but just about sums up the rules of golf that they want to redefine what a word like beyond means!

Seems straightforward enough and not a redefinition of beyond. It simply makes precise which part of the object the ball must be beyond to be out of bounds. It makes sense for it to be the inner edge of whatever marks out of bounds so that you don't have a problem of accessing the far side to determine if a ball has gone past it.

 

[rulefan]

Bear in mind what is said in the Definition of out of bounds [my emphasis]:


When out of bounds is defined by reference to stakes or a fence or as being beyond stakes or a fence, the out of bounds line is determined by the nearest inside points at ground level of the stakes or fence posts

Why would you not apply the same definition to a hedge?

These are the words used by England Golf and by many English Counties.

a. Beyond any wall, fence, hedge or line of white stakes defining the boundary of the course. Where the out of bounds is defined by a hedge the boundary line is considered to be the inside line of the hedge trunks at ground level.

 

[Hosel Fade]

These are the words used by England Golf and by many English Counties.

a. Beyond any wall, fence, hedge or line of white stakes defining the boundary of the course. Where the out of bounds is defined by a hedge the boundary line is considered to be the inside line of the hedge trunks at ground level.

Thats what I would have expected but they really should just put some stakes in and save people the bother of crawling around under hedges trying to figure out where the trunks are and what the line is

 

[rulefan]

Stakes are expensive, some countryside courses may have a couple of miles of hedge, and it is a very easy process.

 

[rulefan]

These are the words used by England Golf and by many English Counties.

a. Beyond any wall, fence, hedge or line of white stakes defining the boundary of the course. Where the out of bounds is defined by a hedge the boundary line is considered to be the inside line of the hedge trunks at ground level.

It was in the EG hardcard draft a couple of years ago but it seems to have been removed (possibly by the new championships director)..

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

If the land beyond the hedge is OB then the hedge itself must be in bounds if you take the wording literally.
Effectively, the far edge of the hedge is the OB line. Therefore in the hedge must be in bounds..

Actually now that you mention it - it's quite obvious I suppose. The hedge must be in bounds if the land beyond it is OoB. So a ball sitting under the 'far' side of the hedge is in bounds.

And tree stakes within the hedge are indeed treated as tree stakes, as the hedge is in bounds.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

These are the words used by England Golf and by many English Counties.

a. Beyond any wall, fence, hedge or line of white stakes defining the boundary of the course. Where the out of bounds is defined by a hedge the boundary line is considered to be the inside line of the hedge trunks at ground level.

...and then there is this...and so stakes within a hedge are Out of Bounds and therefore rules/local rules that apply to tree stakes elsewhere ion the course do not apply.

 

[rulie]

Oh goodness, hopefully the Committee in charge of the course will satisfactorily complete their responsibilities (Rule 33-2).

 

[Colin L]

Actually now that you mention it - it's quite obvious I suppose. The hedge must be in bounds if the land beyond it is OoB. So a ball sitting under the 'far' side of the hedge is in bounds.

And tree stakes within the hedge are indeed treated as tree stakes, as the hedge is in bounds.

A boundary hedge is no more in bounds than a boundary fence, stake, wall or painted line. Back to the Definition: the fence, stake etc defines the boundary; there is a point on whatever it is beyond which the ball is out of bounds; that is the point nearest the course. Join up the points and that is your boundary line. Your ball can be beyond that line but still on or within whatever is defining the boundary. You could easily find that your ball is beyond the inner side of a hedge but in the hedge. For example, see Decision 27-19
http://www.usga.org/rules/rules-and-decisions.html#!decision-27,d27-19

There seem to me many practical difficulties in working out what the boundary line is from the inner edge of a hedge. It is quite likely to be straggly and could be moving in the wind. It's probably not touching the ground and you have to determine what bit of it, if any, is vertically above your ball - and again it might be moving in the wind. Is a sticking out bramble briar part of the hedge? And so on. Defining it as the inside line of the hedge trunks improves on that for a line of conifers, but not much use for a privet hedge and potentially painful if it's hawthorn.