He threw my ball away!

[Sid Rixon IV]

At our club our 17th fairway runs parallel to the practice ground where lessons take place. You drive over the brow of a hill and it's not uncommon when getting over the brow to see quite a few practice balls and have to inspect them to ID your ball.
In a friendly match (for £1) this week - matchplay - my opponent approached my ball on the fairway and, without checking, assumed it to be a practice ball, picked it up and hurled it into the practice area. (There were only 2 or 3 stray balls in sight).
I found it and we agreed the position of the ball and continued.

The question is, should he incur a penalty for his action?
Fellow players are divided between "No penalty" and "There must be!"

 

[Blue in Munich]

Apparently not;

http://www.usga.org/RulesFAQ/rules_answer.asp?FAQidx=73&Rule=18

 

[bladeplayer]

As it was matchplay there may well be a penalty, there was a question in this months mag that might clarify

Q Jezz & Fergus are playing a singles match , jezz marks & lifts Fergus's ball by mistake on the putting green

Ans Jezz is penalised 1 stroke (18-3b) if other than during a search for a players ball an opponent moves the ball the opponent is penalised 1 stroke ..


I know ye were technically searching for ur ball , but id be fair sure the "searching for a players ball" in the rule is a ball that is not visable .. like walking on it in the rough etc



Edit .. so 1 shot penalty

 

[Sid Rixon IV]

Apparently not;

http://www.usga.org/RulesFAQ/rules_answer.asp?FAQidx=73&Rule=18

That refers to a stroke play situation.
Ours was matchplay?

 

[rulefan]

Bladeplayer has it right. 1 stroke penalty to your opponent.

[h=3]18-3. By Opponent, Caddie or Equipment in Match Play[/h][h=4]b. Other Than During Search[/h]If, other than during search for a player's ball, an opponent, his caddie or his equipment, moves the ball, touches it purposely or causes it to move, except as otherwise provided in the Rules, the opponent incurs a penalty of one stroke. If the ball is moved, it must be replaced.

 

[Sid Rixon IV]

Thank you all.
I've just sent him rulefan's post.
I paid him the quid that day.
That stroke changes the result!

 

[chrisd]

R

Thank you all.
I've just sent him rulefan's post.
I paid him the quid that day.
That stroke changes the result!

Ah ...... but does it?

You didn't make a claim before teeing off the next hole, so my understanding is that you both stand by the result as you accepted at the end of the play on the hole

 

[WinBase]

I've seen this scenario happen Many times in order to speed up play, but never seen anyone complain or penalised in 30 years of playing competitive golf:

player A plays his approach shot to the green which ends up in players B's line
while player A is walking round the green with trolley which will take a minute or two, another player in the 4-ball (doesn't matter who), will mark player A's ball for him, so player B can take his putt & get on with it, usually with an 'ok if I mark it for you', but perhaps its sometimes implied its ok and done as a matter of course

from what i'm reading from rulefan, it sounds like a penalty to the player who marked it - if so i'm a tad gobsmacked as it doesn't seem to be in the spirit of the game

also as an aside, I think i'm right in saying that upto a few years ago the player who marked a ball on the green had to be the one to replace it, however I was told this rule has now changed, is that also the case?

 

[TheJezster]

I've seen this scenario happen Many times in order to speed up play, but never seen anyone complain or penalised in 30 years of playing competitive golf:

player A plays his approach shot to the green which ends up in players B's line
while player A is walking round the green with trolley which will take a minute or two, another player in the 4-ball (doesn't matter who), will mark player A's ball for him, so player B can take his putt & get on with it, usually with an 'ok if I mark it for you', but perhaps its sometimes implied its ok and done as a matter of course

from what i'm reading from rulefan, it sounds like a penalty to the player who marked it - if so i'm a tad gobsmacked as it doesn't seem to be in the spirit of the game

also as an aside, I think i'm right in saying that upto a few years ago the player who marked a ball on the green had to be the one to replace it, however I was told this rule has now changed, is that also the case?

It doesnt though, rulefan states that the rules say:
'except as otherwise provided in the Rules'
Marking the ball on the green is part of the rules.

 

[WinBase]

It doesnt though, rulefan states that the rules say:
'except as otherwise provided in the Rules'
Marking the ball on the green is part of the rules.

the original post he replied to said "jezz marks & lifts Fergus's ball by mistake on the putting green" - with the result eventually being a 1 stroke penalty. in the case stated I would have thought that Jezz marking the ball on the green was exactly as you state 'part of the rules' as marking is allowable, and nothing was maliciously intended, whether permission was sought, by accident or whatever the reason

 

[bladeplayer]

the original post he replied to said "jezz marks & lifts Fergus's ball by mistake on the putting green" - with the result eventually being a 1 stroke penalty. in the case stated I would have thought that Jezz marking the ball on the green was exactly as you state 'part of the rules' as marking is allowable, and nothing was maliciously intended, whether permission was sought, by accident or whatever the reason

That was me quoting from the rules page in the magazine

Just keep in mind the rule is different in matchplay & stroke play

Its not allowed in the rules in a match

18-3. By Opponent, Caddie or Equipment in Match Play

b. Other Than During Search

 

[WinBase]

That was me quoting from the rules page in the magazine

Just keep in mind the rule is different in matchplay & stroke play

Its not allowed in the rules in a match

18-3. By Opponent, Caddie or Equipment in Match Play

b. Other Than During Search

Hi Bladeplayer

thanks, yes, I did notice that, but ive seen it regularly & innocently done in all sorts of formats including midweek team 4BBB matches for example, but my feeling is that not many know this rule, and anyone who did and let it happen then claimed the hole when an opponent was only trying to help would get a frosty reception for the rest of the round, during the meal afterwards and beyond lol, so whether its a RoG or not I just don't see it as being in the spirit of the game, but by the by, i'm a bit of stickler so at least its good to know if only to prevent it happening to anyone just in case - GL

 

[Colin L]

In both stroke and match play, your ball may be marked and lifted by someone you authorise to do so.

In stroke play, if a fellow competitor marks and lifts our ball without your authority, there is no penalty as he is an outside agency and you proceed under Rule 18-1 by replacing it.

In match play, your opponent is not an outside agency. He may mark and lift your ball if you authorise him to do so, but if he does so without your authority he has purposely moved your ball and is liable to a 1 stroke penalty under Rule 18-3 as Rulefan has said. The phrase "except as the Rules allow" doesn't apply because the Rules don't allow him to touch your ball without your say-so. It only applies if you give him authority.

You can, of course, choose to ignore your opponent's breach.

 

[WinBase]

You can, of course, choose to ignore your opponent's breach.

LOL - one of the first rules of golf I learned is something along the lines of: agreeing to break the rules is a breach of the rules itself, which i'm sure you know better than I - all we're supposed to do is hit a ball with a stick, find it and hit it again - who would think its so complicated

better do some work now !!

GL

 

[bladeplayer]

Hi Bladeplayer

thanks, yes, I did notice that, but ive seen it regularly & innocently done in all sorts of formats including midweek team 4BBB matches for example, but my feeling is that not many know this rule, and anyone who did and let it happen then claimed the hole when an opponent was only trying to help would get a frosty reception for the rest of the round, during the meal afterwards and beyond lol, so whether its a RoG or not I just don't see it as being in the spirit of the game, but by the by, i'm a bit of stickler so at least its good to know if only to prevent it happening to anyone just in case - GL

I agree totally , it would take a fair bad tempered match for me to call it on anyone , & if it was that kinda match i dont think any1 would be going near other players ball in the first place ..

TBH , If it happened normally id take Colin's approach & just mention it in an informative way

 

[rulefan]

the original post he replied to said "jezz marks & lifts Fergus's ball by mistake on the putting green" - with the result eventually being a 1 stroke penalty. in the case stated I would have thought that Jezz marking the ball on the green was exactly as you state 'part of the rules' as marking is allowable, and nothing was maliciously intended, whether permission was sought, by accident or whatever the reason

I was posting the rule relating to the real original post which said "my opponent approached my ball on the fairway"

 

[rulefan]

... also as an aside, I think i'm right in saying that upto a few years ago the player who marked a ball on the green had to be the one to replace it, however I was told this rule has now changed, is that also the case?

Although the words have changed slightly, the rule hasn't.

A ball to be placed under the Rules must be placed by the player or his partner.
A ball to be replaced under the Rules must be replaced by any one of the following: (i) the person who lifted or moved the ball, (ii) the player, or (iii) the player's partner.

 

[Sid Rixon IV]

R

Ah ...... but does it?

You didn't make a claim before teeing off the next hole, so my understanding is that you both stand by the result as you accepted at the end of the play on the hole

Ah, but I did not accept it.
Immediately I recovered my ball I suggested there has to be a penalty for his action. He claimed there wasn't as it was "a simple mistake", in other words not "purposely" as the word is used in the rule quoted.
As it was just our regular "friendly" roll up we carried on and I raised it in the clubhouse - not as a dispute but as an unusual occurrence.
A rules "guru" sided with him and said "no penalty".
We won't fall out over this but I'm newer to the game than my FC's and I just want to know if they're right.

 

[chrisd]

Ah, but I did not accept it.
Immediately I recovered my ball I suggested there has to be a penalty for his action. He claimed there wasn't as it was "a simple mistake", in other words not "purposely" as the word is used in the rule quoted.
As it was just our regular "friendly" roll up we carried on and I raised it in the clubhouse - not as a dispute but as an unusual occurrence.
A rules "guru" sided with him and said "no penalty".
We won't fall out over this but I'm newer to the game than my FC's and I just want to know if they're right.

If it were a serious game I believe you have to state that you are "making a claim" so that your opponent is fully aware that the result of the hole is not determined and that clarity will be sought to determine the outcome of the hole.

 

[backwoodsman]

Ah, but I did not accept it.
Immediately I recovered my ball I suggested there has to be a penalty for his action. He claimed there wasn't as it was "a simple mistake", in other words not "purposely" as the word is used in the rule quoted.
As it was just our regular "friendly" roll up we carried on and I raised it in the clubhouse - not as a dispute but as an unusual occurrence.
A rules "guru" sided with him and said "no penalty".
We won't fall out over this but I'm newer to the game than my FC's and I just want to know if they're right.

You (or probably they) are using the word "purposely" out of context. If the rule is read carefully you'll see that "moves the ball" is one element, and "touches it purposely" is another. "Purposely" does not relate to "moves the ball". Moves the ball = fact= penalty.