Handicaps on Professional Tour

[Neilds]

Having head about promising youngsters who play off scratch thinking about turning Pro, it got me thinking about whether the likes of McIlroy, Speith etc still have handicaps that we can compare against.
i remember reading a magazine article a few years ago when an ex pro gave advice to a +2 kid that he would need to get to about +4/5 just to be making the cut.
is this still the case or would you actually need to be even better?
i am not even in the 1 shot per hole gang so this is not something I really need to worry about:mmm:

 

[pbrown7582]

It's still around the same although I have seen some calcs that have some on tour at +7/8

 

[duncan mackie]

Depends what you mean by 'Tour'.

As posted the top boys overall are probably equivalent to about +8 or better!

You may be able to make (scratch) a tournament living at about +4

You may find it right for you to join a feeder tour at about +2 and lean about winning from there (although the elite amateur game is now very very strong in this area too) but it will probably be costing you initially rather than paying it's way.

Put another way, the US colleges although re usually looking for +1 or better for their intake and only the top few percent come out years later able to join any tour!

 

[Three]

It's worth bearing in mind what the CSS would be on the courses they play on.

Imagine a 7400 yard course with greens that run 12+ on the Stimp, the CSS would be 3 over par in an amateur tournament every day.
So some guys are shooting 4, 5, 6 or better under par, and level par is a bad day for them.

I would say +4 is a minimum starting point these days, then you would need to make big improvements.

 

[99problemsbutapitchaint1]

Its a journey, Harrington was Plus 4 as an amateur Monty was 4.

Mark O Meara was given a Plus 8 by his club, he complained about it as he had not shot 64s to achieve this and it was just given as plus 8 is usually the number you give a world class golfer, so he was told go play two rounds and we will give you a handicap, 61, 62, poor conditions, they gave him plus 13! ahahahha

Young scratch golfers are so far from top pros its hard to express, I played a lot of golf with 3 guys plus 1, plus1, plus 2, all tried and failed to become pros, not even close.. they were shooting awful scores on tour.

Its a different game when your next weeks accommodation depends on getting down in two from a bunker. There is also the mental leap to being a nobody in the pro game, as amateurs your scratch, plus 1s and 2s are local stars, on tour they are hackers, i assume it takes a special mentality to not wilt when all of a sudden you aint that great.

I think that these guys just need to turn pro and see if they have the mentality, its not just about golf skill its about managing money, travel, playing 4 rounds well etc some can do it, some just cannot..

Worlds top 10 at any given time, i would think plus 8 is a fair number for them..

 

[garyinderry]

Think Rory was plus 5 when he shot the course record at rossapenna as an amateur.

 

[Hobbit]

Suggest you Google European Tour, and then pick half dozen run of the mill competitions. These are generally played on the easier courses, but still in excess of 7000yds and having greens like glass. Have a look at what level par will earn you, approx €5,000, and then think of the expenses you'd have to pay that week. Without a decent sponsor, you'd have to foot all your expenses, including paying your caddy, and if you're just starting out you're unlikely to have much in the way of sponsorship - see Ian Poulter's most recent biography. And level par won't make the cut at a number of tournaments. Level par at the top tournaments, like the BMW PGA at Wentworth, will earn you at least 3 times that amount but then you're up against the big boys, and the courses are tougher, so shooting level par is harder.

And then there's the few weeks of below average form that all pro's go through in a season, and the few weeks taken off to recharge the batteries.

At present, unless you're earning over €200,000 you aren't going to retain your tour card. And averaging just under level par every week is going to earn you somewhere less than €100,000.

There's been many very decent amatuers down the years, including a number of Walker Cup players, who've not got anywhere near making the grade.

 

[Dan2501]

Quite a few PGA Tour players maintain handicaps at their home clubs. Bubba Watson can go round his home course with 1 club and shoot under par, and in 2012 had a handicap of +7.7. Phil Mickelson plays off +6.9. Paul Casey +6. Jim Furyk plays off +5.8. Geoff Ogilvy also plays off +5.8. Martin Kaymer plays of +6.6. The guys on tour are insanely good.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Suggest you Google European Tour, and then pick half dozen run of the mill competitions. These are generally played on the easier courses, but still in excess of 7000yds and having greens like glass. Have a look at what level par will earn you, approx €5,000, and then think of the expenses you'd have to pay that week. Without a decent sponsor, you'd have to foot all your expenses, including paying your caddy, and if you're just starting out you're unlikely to have much in the way of sponsorship - see Ian Poulter's most recent biography. And level par won't make the cut at a number of tournaments. Level par at the top tournaments, like the BMW PGA at Wentworth, will earn you at least 3 times that amount but then you're up against the big boys, and the courses are tougher, so shooting level par is harder.

And then there's the few weeks of below average form that all pro's go through in a season, and the few weeks taken off to recharge the batteries.

At present, unless you're earning over €200,000 you aren't going to retain your tour card. And averaging just under level par every week is going to earn you somewhere less than €100,000.

There's been many very decent amatuers down the years, including a number of Walker Cup players, who've not got anywhere near making the grade.

Excellent summary of how hard it is. While £100,000 seems a big sum, take off the cost over a year of all the expenses and many won't be earning more than £30k. Still not a bad wedge but could you really move from country to country every week, live out of a suitcase, spend little time with your family? The tour guys have a good life but a lot of those down the other end of the echelon have said in GM and elsewhere how tiring and hard life can be. Even worse once that golden ticket goes and you go to Q school and then don't make it for the next season

 

[Khamelion]

Mathew Fitzpatrick is playing well at the moment, but what happened to, was it Tom Lewis? If I remember correctly he won his first tournament after turning pro, but I've not heard not read anything for a good while.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Mathew Fitzpatrick is playing well at the moment, but what happened to, was it Tom Lewis? If I remember correctly he won his first tournament after turning pro, but I've not heard not read anything for a good while.

He is still around mate - playing on the ET - he has done enough in the past 3 years to keep his card every year

Came 20th in Italy