Handicaps An Anomaly

[PhilTheFragger]

I have been playing Golf regularly for about the last 14 months and around December last year got my first handicap of 26.2 after 3 cards were put in, the best was a round of 98.

Over the months my handicap has slowly fallen to the current level of 24.3 (round of 92)

No doubt you will have read my other current Imurg bashing thread where I scored 89 yesterday and im hoping that that will result in a cut to 22.3.

Im aware of the .4 cut system per shot and the buffer zone etc. Its just that im miffed that a 9 shot difference (98-89) only results in a total cut of 3.9 (26.2 to 22.3)

Standard scratch is 69 89 less 69 =20 I feel that this should be my new handicap.

If I had joined the club and put this card in as part of the first 3, they would probably have given me a 20 handicap

This I see as an anomaly

If I shoot 89 again next week, it will have no impact on my handicap, I have to shoot much better to improve

I want to get to 15 in time, But it looks like im going to have to shoot single figures to achieve that.

Fragger

 

[JustOne]

If I shoot 89 again next week, it will have no impact on my handicap, I have to shoot much better to improve

It should as it's still under your h/cap.

 

[Region3]

Part of me agrees with you, but it's only a small part.

Should it be right that if Jammydodger (just as an example of a cat1 player on here) shoots 69 in next weeks medal he should get cut to +3?

 

[PhilTheFragger]

It depends on whether the handicap should represent the average score a player achieves or the best that he can play.

I always thought that you were handicapped to the best of your ability,

So if sss is 69 and you shoot 69, You are obviously capable of making that score so you should be scratch.

Get round in 66 and you are +3
Get round in 79 and you are off 10

Obviously the .1 adjustments for a bad round would iron out over time.

Another thing. I scored 42 points, if they change my handicap to 22, that will knock 4 points off my score to give me 38.(assuming i played the same round next week)

But playing to your handicap on every hole should give you 36.

Should they be saying 42 less 36 = 6 , Lets knock him down by 3 strokes to 21

Fragger

 

[bigslice]

come on fragger forget about it. im also a high handicapper but i dont worry about, should i be cut this and that. i know it will come down once i start scoring and playing well. whats the rush the quicker it comes down the longer you have to mantain it. this is the end of my second season back after 20 years. ive just broke 90 in the last three rounds, and loving it although off the yellows last month i shot a 67 (wtf) dont worry about handicap it will come down

 

[MashieNiblick]

Hi Phil. I understand where you're coming from. I felt like this when I first started getting a handicap and often queried how the system works and whether it is fair and consistent. However I think it helps to think about what the purpose of golf handicaps is. According to CONGU, who run the system

" A golf handicap allows players of all levels of golfing ability to compete against each other on a fair and equal basis."

"Throughout the world a golf handicap is recognised as representing the number of strokes that need to be deducted from the players actual (Gross) score so that, when he plays to his average ability, his Nett score equals a "Standard Score". The amount deducted (the players "handicap") is calculated so as to be related to the player's ability at the time he plays in the competition."

and

"The System developed and refined by the Council of National Golf Unions (CONGU) provides a player with a golf handicap that reflects their playing ability relative to that of all other players handicapped by the CONGU® Handicapping System."

Overall I think the system does this.

I have had a fair bit of time to kill this year and, being a golf fanatic, spent some time looking at the CONGU site. From being a bit of a sceptic/cynic I was very impressed by how hard they work to make sure the system delivers what they want. If you are interested in finding out more I'd give it a look:

http://www.congu.com/home.asp

I play off 11 and have played off that or thereabouts for many years. A few years back I won a comp with 6 over gross. Should I have been cut to 6? No, because with that h'cap I wouldn't have been competitive against other players for about the next 3 years as each round delivered the inevitable plus .1. You could say that if everyone was cut to their best ever round that would be fair but then we'd have a US Open type situation where (net) par was a great score. Only improvers or people with wrong handicaps would win anything.

I know that off my h'cap I have a reasonable chance to win every time I tee up. I know If I play well I might shoot 78 or 79 but I'm happy with a gross 81 and unhappy with 85 so my handicap feels right as well.

It is different when you are improving as you want to get down as quickly as possible and you will feel that your handicap is lagging behind your ability but give it time, your cuts will come. There are provisions to hasten the process through general play and annual review adjustments.

The thing is to remember your handicap is only a means to an end, not an end in itself. It's hard because we all want to get our handicaps cut and we make that our goal, but concentrate on shooting good scores and the system will in time give you your just rewards.

All the best.

Sorry for the long post but I'm killing time waiting for the golf to start on the telly.

 

[John_Findlay]

I agree, Phil. I was in a similar situation lately.

My old handicap of 9 lapsed. I've put in 2 of my 3 new cards so far. The first was an 88 (don't ask), the 2nd a 75. Handicap secretary tells me that unless I improve on the 75 I'm gonna be off 6.

Now, if I'd put in those two cards when I had my old handicap I'd have gone up 0.1 for the 88 then been chopped 0.4 for the 75. So I'd still be off 9 (8.7) instead of 6.

Not that I mind but there is an anomaly as you say.

 

[net72]

Getting your handicap down can be a slow and painfull process.

If you started at 28 and played 1 under your handicap in every competition, it would take 135 qualifying rounds to get to 0, assuming css was level and you didn't get chopped at the annual review.

I feel the same as you and have played under my handicap loads of times this year. I've come down 3 shots to 12 but I feel that I should be a little lower

 

[RGDave]

I play off 11 and have played off that or thereabouts for many years. A few years back I won a comp with 6 over gross. Should I have been cut to 6? No, because with that h'cap I wouldn't have been competitive against other players for about the next 3 years as each round delivered the inevitable plus .1

Have you been reading my memoirs?

 

[Billysboots]

Phil, it may seem like a strange system to you, but there will be times when a handicap secretary may give you an additional cut under the old general play rule, or alternatively you may be cut in your club's annual review.

If you play well within your handicap in qualifiers and your handicap does not keep pace with your level of improvement, your handicap secretary should cut you. End of.

 

[kid2]

Hey Phil.
Iv had a nett 64 and 2 nett 65's this season
....Im now down to 15.8 but i have had a heap of 0.1's back in between these and a few buffers......
Im not yet consistent enough to hold a handicap worthy of those nett scores that i shot but the handicap secretary must be scratching his head as to the scores im shooting....And so am i if im honest........If these scores are a measure of the ability i have it gives me alot of confidence knowing one day i will be able to shoot them regular.

 

[Fyldewhite]

If I had joined the club and put this card in as part of the first 3, they would probably have given me a 20 handicap

Yes, that is true but it's also a fact that you didn't. You have now achieved this score after playing many comps over many months and the system will say you are now 22. Sounds about right to me, sorry.

 

[SammmeBee]

So why don't you just play in the next competition, shoot the same score and get cut again? Simples?!

 

[JustOne]

There has to be some kind of flexibility because any golfer can go out and shoot 5 shots less than their h/cap one day and 5 shots (or more) worse the next. Your h/cap should be somewhere in the middle but erring on the side of your better play.

 

[Herbie]

In answer to the OP...
There are many questions to be raised about h/c assessment but sadly there are only so many ways it can be calculated to be anywhere near fair.

My current h/c does not reflect the average I have played in matches/comps (non qualifying)it simply reflects my recent poor outings and loss of interest half way through medal comps, like comfortably making gross par on front nine yet comming in with a 92 after losing 8 shots on 3 holes and getting peed off and giving up....you might know the kind of round..lol

h/c systems will never be perfect but if someone can come up with something better than whats on offer I would like to see it in action.

So long as it is comming down...be happy.
In fact...so long as it is going up...be happy(you can win stuff lol)

 

[MashieNiblick]

I agree, Phil. I was in a similar situation lately.

My old handicap of 9 lapsed. I've put in 2 of my 3 new cards so far. The first was an 88 (don't ask), the 2nd a 75. Handicap secretary tells me that unless I improve on the 75 I'm gonna be off 6.

Now, if I'd put in those two cards when I had my old handicap I'd have gone up 0.1 for the 88 then been chopped 0.4 for the 75. So I'd still be off 9 (8.7) instead of 6.

Not that I mind but there is an anomaly as you say.

Hmm that's interesting John. As my handicap is currently inactive I thought I'd check this out. It looks like this wouldn't happen in England or Wales as the EGU and GUW decided, unlike the Scots, not to introduce lapsed handicaps. See

http://www.englishgolfunion.org/showpage.asp?code=0001000200090017

and check out the FAQs.

So in England or Wales it would seem your new cards would simply reactivate your old handicap and adjustments would be made accordingly.

(Also discovered bye-the-bye that I'd probably be exempt on health grounds from having an inactive handicap. I'll follow that up whem I'm playing again.)

I would agree that the situation you describe is a bit of an anomaly. I can understand why, when first getting a h'cap, it's fair enough to pick the lowest score of the cards submitted (as generally people at that stage are improving) but if you've previously had a h'cap, I agree it is a bit funny to make you start again (nearly said start from "scratch" but that would be harsh! ) especially when the result is so different from if your handicap hadn't lapsed.

Congratulations on your cut

 

[HawkeyeMS]

I want to get to 15 in time, But it looks like im going to have to shoot single figures to achieve that.

No, you have to shoot 2 to 5 below your h'cap on a regular basis.

I have a lot of issues with the h'cap system but find your logic a bit wayward. I shot 78 (+6) at the beginning of April, using your logic I'd be off 6 but since that day I've broken 80 once and that was a 79, not really the play of a 6 h'capper.

If you want to get to 15 you have to earn it, not have the round of your life once in a blue moon.

 

[kid2]

I want to get to 15 in time, But it looks like im going to have to shoot single figures to achieve that.

No, you have to shoot 2 to 5 below your h'cap on a regular basis.

I have a lot of issues with the h'cap system but find your logic a bit wayward. I shot 78 (+6) at the beginning of April, using your logic I'd be off 6 but since that day I've broken 80 once and that was a 79, not really the play of a 6 h'capper.

If you want to get to 15 you have to earn it, not have the round of your life once in a blue moon.

Completely agree with Hawkeye on this one....
It mirrors my handicap exactly....As i said abovePhil, 2 nett 64's and a 65 but alot of 0.1's in between.......Im up and down like a yoyo....But i know that im not far away from geting a little more consistency with some work......But as Hawkeye has said.....It has to be earned....And boy at the moment i am earning it.