Handicap/Comps Committee

[Deleted member 15344]

With reading recent threads and also past issues that have been mentioned it seems it's clear that there are a number of HC Sec/committee clearly not following EGU and Congu regulations - now as we all know that doesn't just affect that one single club it affects everyone due to players with incorrectly managed HC and Comps entering Opens that they could possibly not be entitled to enter.

With golf being the self governing sport in regards rules etc when playing the questions are - if you know your club does indeed fail to follow congu guidelines and rules , do you do anything about it ?

And should that club then have their members not be able to enter opens or indeed should the club itself not be able to hold opens.

Handicaps is such a very temperamental subject across the whole of golf but surely the main thing we need is for them to be looked after correctly by the club

 

[Hobbit]

It's gone on since the mid 80's that I know of, and probably before. I was h'cap/comps sec from then through to 2006, but with the odd year break for other offices.

I was amazed at how half hearted the application some of the rules were. Little use of Rule 19, and even less evidence to support any cuts. No end of season review. No asking for "away" cards, even when a player had picked up prizes.

i did get a solicitor's letter for applying Rule 19, with an absolute mountain of evidence to support the cut. We met, and I showed him the evidence and I offered to suspend his handicap pending a review by the county Union. Surprisingly, he withdrew the objection.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

As a member of a Club who has had no role on any committee, I pay my membership fee and expect the Club to look after my handicap, I also agree on my behalf to abide by their rules/procedures as they lay down, I don't have enough knowledge on all aspects, so maybe naively go along with what I am told without suspicion.
If I have a question I will ask and again have faith in the person responding to me.
However, I also acknowledge I've learnt more on this forum in the last 12 months than I did being a member of a Golf Club for 10 years.
Sometimes as a member we simply just want to play golf and that's it😃

 

[louise_a]

I am taking over as handicap/comps secretary this week. Its our first comp of the season on Thursday so I asked the men's comp secretary whether preferred lies are in place. When he said they were, I said so that's on closely mown only to which he replied no through the green.
Now I know that preferred lies are a local rule but am sure that they are not allowed in the rough, I am right about this aren't I?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I am taking over as handicap/comps secretary this week. Its our first comp of the season on Thursday so I asked the men's comp secretary whether preferred lies are in place. When he said they were, I said so that's on closely mown only to which he replied no through the green.
Now I know that preferred lies are a local rule but am sure that they are not allowed in the rough, I am right about this aren't I?

They can have preferred lies through the green if they wish but the comp becomes non qualifying

But not as a LR to allow the comp to be qualfiying where as preffered lies in closely mown areas can

We had pick and place in the rough at some points through the winter on some holes

 

[guest100718]

I am taking over as handicap/comps secretary this week. Its our first comp of the season on Thursday so I asked the men's comp secretary whether preferred lies are in place. When he said they were, I said so that's on closely mown only to which he replied no through the green.
Now I know that preferred lies are a local rule but am sure that they are not allowed in the rough, I am right about this aren't I?

YEs, you can have another LR allowing a free drop for a plugged ball in the rough. but not LCP in a qualifier

 

[Fyldewhite]

Fully agree Phil, but it's hard to do anything about it from outside the committee. Probably 90% (or more) of golfers don't really care one jot how handicaps are maintained and only have a vague idea of the CONGU regulations. Unfortunately, this is the pool of people available for getting on the committee and inevitably the starting point each year is usually one of basically well intended ignorance. I was on committee for many years up until a few years ago. It was a constant battle to simply follow the rules and when you quote the rules you basically get slagged off for being a smartarse!! I'm no longer involved and it's plain to see wrong decisions being made regularly.....the latest one, a debate on "....whether to go to 90% for 4BBB". I'm firmly in the "leave them to it" camp though. Life's too short.

 

[virtuocity]

if you know your club does indeed fail to follow congu guidelines and rules , do you do anything about it ?

Nope- they should be allowed to do what they want IMO.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Nope- they should be allowed to do what they want IMO.

Sorry ? But do you mean each club should be able to do whatever they want with their players HC ?

Do you mind expanding why ?

 

[virtuocity]

Sorry ?

Don't apologise.

But do you mean each club should be able to do whatever they want with their players HC ?

Yes, but at an additional cost to members.

Do you mind expanding why ?

I think it could potentially generate vital revenue for clubs that are struggling.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Don't apologise.



Yes, but at an additional cost to members.



I think it could potentially generate vital revenue for clubs that are struggling.

?! Revenue ? Cost ?

 

[HawkeyeMS]

I had a situation last year where I returned a score of 5 for a hole instead of a 4 (discussed on here at the time, I don't really want to go into it again). I raised it with the h'cap sec before the comp was closed as it meant I should have had a 0.2 cut but didn't get a response until 2 days after the comp was closed explaining there was nothing they could do about it. I responded explain that while I accept the comp result may not be changed, that my score should be corrected for h'cap purposes but was again told that nothing could be done. I asked CONGU about it and they explained that my h'cap should indeed be adjusted so I forwarded that response to the h'cap sec asking him to adjust my h'cap accordingly, I am still awaiting a response...


...so the answer is yes, I tried to do something but it did a fat lot of good.

 

[delc]

I had a situation last year where I returned a score of 5 for a hole instead of a 4 (discussed on here at the time, I don't really want to go into it again). I raised it with the h'cap sec before the comp was closed as it meant I should have had a 0.2 cut but didn't get a response until 2 days after the comp was closed explaining there was nothing they could do about it. I responded explain that while I accept the comp result may not be changed, that my score should be corrected for h'cap purposes but was again told that nothing could be done. I asked CONGU about it and they explained that my h'cap should indeed be adjusted so I forwarded that response to the h'cap sec asking him to adjust my h'cap accordingly, I am still awaiting a response...


...so the answer is yes, I tried to do something but it did a fat lot of good.

Sorry but your score has to stand under Rule 6.6d

"The competitor is responsible for the correctness of the score recorded for each hole on his score card. If he returns a score for any hole lower than actually taken, he is disqualified. If he returns a score for any hole higher than actually taken, the score as returned stands.

Exception: If a competitor returns a score for any hole lower than actually taken due to failure to include one or more penalty strokes that, before returning his score card, he did not know he had incurred, he is not disqualified. In such circumstances, the competitor incurs the penalty prescribed by the applicable Rule and an additional penalty of two strokes for each hole at which the competitor has committed a breach of Rule 6-6d. This Exception does not apply when the applicable penalty is disqualification from the competition.

Note 1: The Committee is responsible for the addition of scores and application"

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Sorry but your score has to stand under Rule 6.6d

"The competitor is responsible for the correctness of the score recorded for each hole on his score card. If he returns a score for any hole lower than actually taken, he is disqualified. If he returns a score for any hole higher than actually taken, the score as returned stands.

Exception: If a competitor returns a score for any hole lower than actually taken due to failure to include one or more penalty strokes that, before returning his score card, he did not know he had incurred, he is not disqualified. In such circumstances, the competitor incurs the penalty prescribed by the applicable Rule and an additional penalty of two strokes for each hole at which the competitor has committed a breach of Rule 6-6d. This Exception does not apply when the applicable penalty is disqualification from the competition.

Note 1: The Committee is responsible for the addition of scores and application"

But he's already stated he didn't want the result to be changed, just the handicap adjustment to be made which CONGU agreed with. Two different things

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Sorry but your score has to stand under Rule 6.6d

"The competitor is responsible for the correctness of the score recorded for each hole on his score card. If he returns a score for any hole lower than actually taken, he is disqualified. If he returns a score for any hole higher than actually taken, the score as returned stands.

Exception: If a competitor returns a score for any hole lower than actually taken due to failure to include one or more penalty strokes that, before returning his score card, he did not know he had incurred, he is not disqualified. In such circumstances, the competitor incurs the penalty prescribed by the applicable Rule and an additional penalty of two strokes for each hole at which the competitor has committed a breach of Rule 6-6d. This Exception does not apply when the applicable penalty is disqualification from the competition.

Note 1: The Committee is responsible for the addition of scores and application"

Did you read what Hawkeye posted ?

He didn't want the score changed at any point and it clearly says that in his post

 

[delc]

But he's already stated he didn't want the result to be changed, just the handicap adjustment to be made which CONGU agreed with. Two different things

I've been in the same situation. I once signed for a 5 for 3 points at the 18th hole in a Stableford qualifier, when I had actually scored 4 for 3. Because the points added up correctly, I didn't notice the mistake. That cost me a 2nd place in the comp and a handicap cut.

 

[Fish]

This might go down the popcorn route soon me thinks 🤔

 

[delc]

I've been in the same situation. I once signed for a 5 for 3 points at the 18th hole in a Stableford qualifier, when I had actually scored 4 for 3. Because the points added up correctly, I didn't notice the mistake. That cost me a 2nd place in the comp and a handicap cut.

P.S. The converse applies in that you can still be cut for a good score, even though you have been DQ'd!

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I've been in the same situation. I once signed for a 5 for 3 points at the 18th hole in a Stableford qualifier, when I had actually scored 4 for 3. Because the points added up correctly, I didn't notice the mistake. That cost me a 2nd place in the comp and a handicap cut.

And if you look at Hawkeye's response he asked the question and CONGU said the cut was still permissible. It's not anything to do with the comp score and positions but about CONGU saying the cut should be allowed and his club not doing so to date.

 

[DCB]

Don't apologise.



Yes, but at an additional cost to members.



I think it could potentially generate vital revenue for clubs that are struggling.

I'm assuming that for a further additional cost, the Rules of Golf will be ignored by the Club as well 😉