Handicap changes following Opens

[HawkeyeMS]

Can someone tell me the process for reporting handicap adjustments after opens? I played in one on Aug 1st but my club still haven't been notified of my handicap change despite me twice chasing the hosting club (Mill Ride) to do it. Our handicap secretary is expecting a notification through a "messaging system", what is that?

Last year I also had to chase Mill Ride before my h'cap was updated but only once and it was sorted in about 10 days. It doesn't affect my playing handicap at the moment but I would like it resolved and it shouldn't take a month to do, I just don't understand the process? Is there anything I can do?

 

[Foxholer]

I'm a bit out of date, but here's my take:

As you are on Club 2000 system and they are on Intelligentgolf one, there is no automatic messaging system between them - not sure there ever is on IG, but C2K could notify another C2K-er who could then 'Accept' the score - except through the Central Database of Handicaps.

You could/should check the CDH to see whether they have loaded the results, so can identify where the cause is. If result loaded, then get Ascot to refresh/accept it. If it hasn't been loaded, then an email to Mill Ride - cc-ed to BB&O, under whose authority MR operate handicaps - should wake them up! Two reminders is more than enough, but they may have done their task and it may not have been 'distributed'.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

I'm a bit out of date, but here's my take:

As you are on Club 2000 system and they are on Intelligentgolf one, there is no automatic messaging system between them - not sure there ever is on IG, but C2K could notify another C2K-er who could then 'Accept' the score - except through the Central Database of Handicaps.

You could/should check the CDH to see whether they have loaded the results, so can identify where the cause is. If result loaded, then get Ascot to refresh/accept it. If it hasn't been loaded, then an email to Mill Ride - cc-ed to BB&O, under whose authority MR operate handicaps - should wake them up! Two reminders is more than enough!

Thanks Foxholer, I have checked CDH and the handicap change hasn't been applied so it seems it is still with Mill Ride. I'll chase them again.

 

[Foxholer]

Thanks Foxholer, I have checked CDH and the handicap change hasn't been applied so it seems it is still with Mill Ride. I'll chase them again.

In that case, make sure you cc BB&O. As I posted, Clubs are only delegated the authority to manage handicaps from their local Area - who in turn are delegated from England/Congu. If they don't do it properly, then Counties are capable of getting 'heavy', so a prompt resolution is likely! Make sure you state you have already tried twice and that it's still not on CDH.

 

[Fyldewhite]

This should happen automatically, as foxholer says via the CDH. (all software must have this functionality as a licence requirement from CONGU). They finish comp and publish to CDH. Next time your club fires up the software they use, the CDH says "we have some away scores for you...." and your club have to apply them.

Something has obviously gone wrong, it should never take more than a couple of days really if they are on the ball. Could be their end or your end but ultimately it's up to your club to ensure your handicap is correct and away scores can still be applied manually. Ask your handicap secretary to do this or tell you why he won't.

 

[Foxholer]

Something has obviously gone wrong, it should never take more than a couple of days really if they are on the ball. Could be their end or your end but ultimately it's up to your club to ensure your handicap is correct and away scores can still be applied manually. Ask your handicap secretary to do this or tell you why he won't.

Not quite! It's a matter of 'responsibilities'!

It's the Player's responsibility to report all Away scores, not the Home Club's to somehow know about them! But I agree - the old manual notification and update would be effective too. The Home Club's Handicap Committee's responsibility is simply to Accept/Record any Away scores they are notified of.

Of course, it seems that another Responsibility of a Handicap Committee has not been successfully carried out by MR - to report all results to CDH. Once that glitch has been sorted, then everything else should follow automatically.

 

[Fyldewhite]

Not quite! It's a matter of 'responsibilities'!

It's the Player's responsibility to report all Away scores, not the Home Club's to somehow know about them! But I agree - the old manual notification and update would be effective too. The Home Club's Handicap Committee's responsibility is simply to Accept/Record any Away scores they are notified of.

Of course, it seems that another Responsibility of a Handicap Committee has not been successfully carried out by MR - to report all results to CDH. Once that glitch has been sorted, then everything else should follow automatically.

He has, and basically been told to wait when something has clearly gone wrong as it's nearly a month on from the comp. To me the responsibility then shifts to the home club to either sort out the problem or apply the away score manually. It is their responsibility to ensure every players handicap record is maintained accurately. Simply fobbing off the player and ignoring the issue isn't doing that in my book.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

He has, and basically been told to wait when something has clearly gone wrong as it's nearly a month on from the comp. To me the responsibility then shifts to the home club to either sort out the problem or apply the away score manually. It is their responsibility to ensure every players handicap record is maintained accurately. Simply fobbing off the player and ignoring the issue isn't doing that in my book.

The home club can't apply the away score manually until the club were the Open is put the score onto the CDH

I have had the same issue with one of our scratch players who played in a comp at Mentmore in July - they still until last not put the score on their system to apply to CDH to then allow me to download it from the CDH

The home club can do nothing (apart from maybe chase up the away club ) but it's the responsibility of the player to ensure all away scores are recorded.

 

[Foxholer]

He has, and basically been told to wait when something has clearly gone wrong as it's nearly a month on from the comp. To me the responsibility then shifts to the home club to either sort out the problem or apply the away score manually. It is their responsibility to ensure every players handicap record is maintained accurately. Simply fobbing off the player and ignoring the issue isn't doing that in my book.

Read Sections 7 and 8 of this! http://www.englandgolf.org/e-brochure/index.html

Responsibilities haven't changed! Though if a number of players are involved, it might be convenient, for all, that the Home Club does the comms.

 

[Deleted member 17920]

Your handicap sec can manually input it in as well if needed, as long as you have all the info your score,CSS any adjustments etc.

I know I had issues with a local club here and that's what happened in the end as it never came through via cdh, and I also have had to return some scores from the Scottish events I do as they can only be inputted manually.

 

[Fyldewhite]

The home club can't apply the away score manually until the club were the Open is put the score onto the CDH

I'm pretty sure you can. We use HandicapMaster and you can do this. Used to use Club systems and you certainly could when the CDH was first introduced. The CDH is just a tool to help with all this. The definitive record is always the home club.

Read Sections 7 and 8 of this! http://www.englandgolf.org/e-brochure/index.html

Responsibilities haven't changed! Though if a number of players are involved, it might be convenient, for all, that the Home Club does the comms.

Not saying they have. Just that common sense dictates that someone needs to sort out the problem and the home club (looking after their member) sticking their head in the sand won't do that.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I'm pretty sure you can. We use HandicapMaster and you can do this. Used to use Club systems and you certainly could when the CDH was first introduced. The CDH is just a tool to help with all this. The definitive record is always the home club.



Not saying they have. Just that common sense dictates that someone needs to sort out the problem and the home club (looking after their member) sticking their head in the sand won't do that.

Sorry I will reword it

You can input scores into the system - yes

But to input the score you will need to official record of that score to do so

Either the signed scorecard or the record of the score from the away club

This is exactly what I had to go through with EGU

The home club will be the administrator of the players handicaps and scores but away comps the player has the responsibility to ensure the away club either puts the score onto their system or gives him the official record of he score .

Every club now has a link to the CDH - the away club should have put the scores onto their system

 

[Fyldewhite]

Every club now has a link to the CDH - the away club should have put the scores onto their system

Phil, I'm only too aware of what should happen. The only point I'm making is that after a few weeks of inaction on the away clubs part then the home club should accept the score declared by the player. There is no requirement to supply a signed scorecard btw - just another myth. Most clubs (in our area anyway) pre-CDH used to maintain an away scores book followed up by snail mail. Simply put the score in (should be easy to find the CSS) and away you go. As per the link supplied by foxy the home club has a responsibility to "Keep the exact handicap up to date at all times". What's the alternative, just ignore it?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Phil, I'm only too aware of what should happen. The only point I'm making is that after a few weeks of inaction on the away clubs part then the home club should accept the score declared by the player. There is no requirement to supply a signed scorecard btw - just another myth. Most clubs (in our area anyway) pre-CDH used to maintain an away scores book followed up by snail mail. Simply put the score in (should be easy to find the CSS) and away you go. As per the link supplied by foxy the home club has a responsibility to "Keep the exact handicap up to date at all times". What's the alternative, just ignore it?

Well I guess EGU were incorrect to me when they said I can't input the score declared by the player until proof was provided or are they providing myths ?

Maybe everyone should just go their clubs and say they played in an open - give them the score and input the score ?

What clubs used to do pre CDH is irrelevant now as the CDH is in use

And as EGU said to me - the player should speak to the away course to find out why the score hasn't been sorted out

Just as players we have set as away have spoken to us to find out why scores haven't been submitted - it could be due to a wrong CDH number or the club haven't actually put the open results on their systems

 

[Foxholer]

....
Not saying they have. Just that common sense dictates that someone needs to sort out the problem and the home club (looking after their member) sticking their head in the sand won't do that.

So still player's responsibility then! Clubs generally haven't got the resources to chase missing Away results, so it's not a case of sticking head in sand - simply of responsibility.

Manual reporting/entry is certainly available - and practical in this case - though the issue does need resolution to get other results onto CDH - and cc-ing the Area Authority (BB&O in this case) is the best way imo. There's not much info actually needed - Club, Comp, Date, Score, CSS, Stableford Adjustment is all - from memory. But still a reasonable amount of effort required if there are lots of Away Comp players! And these have to be 'matched and dropped' once the CDH entry comes through, so a bit more effort!

 

[Fyldewhite]

Well I guess EGU were incorrect to me when they said I can't input the score declared by the player until proof was provided or are they providing myths ?

Maybe, not saying individual clubs or even counties don't have their own policies on this but I don't think it's a requirement of the UHS rules. If I'm wrong (and I may well be) then perhaps you could point me to it?

Maybe everyone should just go their clubs and say they played in an open - give them the score and input the score ?

Sorry, I thought our game was based on trust and honesty.....why not just say you had a 3 when you had a 6 and save all the away comp bother?

What clubs used to do pre CDH is irrelevant now as the CDH is in use

True, but I used the example to emphasise the point above. It worked then and (exceptionally) the principle would be fine now IMO.

And as EGU said to me - the player should speak to the away course to find out why the score hasn't been sorted out

Yes, absolutely right, but the OP has done so and still no joy......so the question remains, do the home club just ignore the situation then? Or maybe help one of their members?

Just as players we have set as away have spoken to us to find out why scores haven't been submitted - it could be due to a wrong CDH number or the club haven't actually put the open results on their systems

Agreed, but as last post, the home club handicap committee has a responsibility to maintain their players exact handicap accurately. Yes, this sometimes involves extra work but that goes with the territory.

Bit surprised at all this tbh. Suppose all I'm saying is that the OP should have had this sorted by now (4 weeks) and it looked to me as though he'd done everything he could, had hit a brick wall, and needed some help from his own committee. I'd expect it from mine, and I would have sorted it when I was handicap chair at ours. That's all.

 

[elliottlale]

I played in an open yesterday and have another on Monday morning. I was within the buffer of CSS to not be affected but if I had shot super low, would I play off an assumed cut Monday morning?

I asked before checking, and CDH has been updated! Seems quick!!! Good

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Maybe, not saying individual clubs or even counties don't have their own policies on this but I don't think it's a requirement of the UHS rules. If I'm wrong (and I may well be) then perhaps you could point me to it?

Sorry, I thought our game was based on trust and honesty.....why not just say you had a 3 when you had a 6 and save all the away comp bother?


True, but I used the example to emphasise the point above. It worked then and (exceptionally) the principle would be fine now IMO.

Yes, absolutely right, but the OP has done so and still no joy......so the question remains, do the home club just ignore the situation then? Or maybe help one of their members?


Agreed, but as last post, the home club handicap committee has a responsibility to maintain their players exact handicap accurately. Yes, this sometimes involves extra work but that goes with the territory.

Bit surprised at all this tbh. Suppose all I'm saying is that the OP should have had this sorted by now (4 weeks) and it looked to me as though he'd done everything he could, had hit a brick wall, and needed some help from his own committee. I'd expect it from mine, and I would have sorted it when I was handicap chair at ours. That's all.

I get what your saying and i have been chased by other clubs in regards away scores submitted at our place not appearing on the CDH ( it has been they just hadnt downloaded it )

Yes the club should help out by contacting the other club and chasing up the away score or at least getting proof of the away score with all the required details - that i have no issue with

I can only go by what the EGU told me in regards away scores being on the system - the home club need proof before putting it on the system - obviously the away club are not providing it at the moment so the home club should help out the member by contacting the away club.

 

[Foxholer]

Agreed, but as last post, the home club handicap committee has a responsibility to maintain their players exact handicap accurately. Yes, this sometimes involves extra work but that goes with the territory.

I'd challenge that - and the chasing of missing Away scores - as being an over-interpretation of Home Club's 'responsibility' - except where Player has provided details as per Pre-CDH days. It's clearly (and specified so) the Away Club's responsibility to ensure CDH is updated. If the Home Club wishes to help, that's fine (I too have done so), but it's clearly, to me, not their responsibility!

Chasing Mill Ride through BB&O should produce a pretty quick resolution!

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Can someone tell me the process for reporting handicap adjustments after opens? I played in one on Aug 1st but my club still haven't been notified of my handicap change despite me twice chasing the hosting club (Mill Ride) to do it. Our handicap secretary is expecting a notification through a "messaging system", what is that?

Last year I also had to chase Mill Ride before my h'cap was updated but only once and it was sorted in about 10 days. It doesn't affect my playing handicap at the moment but I would like it resolved and it shouldn't take a month to do, I just don't understand the process? Is there anything I can do?

Out of interest I assume it went a whole lot better than the Longhurst Cup then and that the good score finally came out. Speak with John Sussex at the club and I'm sure he'll give Mill Ride a call for you