Handicap adjustment.

[ppauls150]

I was wondering if someone can give me advice on if I should contest a handicap cut which seems to have been done probably under general play or something.
I've been a member of a golf club for about 10 months and was given a handicap of 16. I thought I was better than that and asked to play off 15. After 10 rounds I had played badly and went up to 16. Practiced over the winter months and come the start of summer won a stableford comp with 44 points SSS being 69 and was docked 3 shots for it which I dint mind. New handicap 13. I've played another stableford comp on Wednesday didn't win came second with 41 points shot 78 with SSS Being 68. I was docked 1 shot plus a further 2 shots by the handicap committee which I think is harsh. In all other comps that I've played in since April have been medals and since I started at the gold club never shot below par in a medal with my comps so far since April being a 90 92 92 89 91 and a NR. Inbetween that has been the two stableford rounds of 44 and 41 points which where I think both 78s. Is it fair to be adjusted a further 2 shots on Wednesday from 13 to 10 for shooting a 41 with my only two decent rounds being in a stableford as I can't keep the consistency together in any medal comps I play to.

 

[duncan mackie]

Sounds like an ESR but without knowing what par is it's hard to be specific - edit that would be system driven rather than handicap committee being harsh!

However, on a strict interpretation of your estimate of shooting 78 each time this would not be the case as the second comp result would only represent a -3 so it wouldn't trigger.

The obvious step before actually challenging is to politely question ie Ask the handicap sec in writing to explain the rasons for the additional reduction applied?

 

[DCB]

If you're based in England, it may well be an ESR reduction triggered by your two really good scores. Couldn't give the calc off the top of my head, but that is a possibility.

Remember, handicap software changes everything into a stableford format to help with handicap calcs.

 

[ppauls150]

Par is 69 with SSS being 69 with 44 points 3 shots lost and SSS 68 41 points with 1 shot lost with a further 2 shots deducted. I thought the ESR was only a recommendation.

 

[Region3]

You are in category 3, which means 0.3 off your handicap for each stroke below CSS.

Par 69, CSS 69, 44 points is 8 shots lower so a 2.4 reduction. Depending on your exact handicap at the time that could have moved you 3 shots lower.

Par 69, CSS 68, 41 points is 4 shots lower so a 1.2 reduction.

The average nett differential of these 2 scores is 6.
If there were no more than 2 other scores between these 2 rounds then a 2 shot ESR is recommended.

 

[Region3]

ESR is a recommendation, but it is recommended not to not apply it without a good reason. Is there a good reason to not apply it?

 

[Old Skier]

Par is 69 with SSS being 69 with 44 points 3 shots lost and SSS 68 41 points with 1 shot lost with a further 2 shots deducted. I thought the ESR was only a recommendation.

ESR does have the option to not apply but all clubs have been asked to apply from CONGU although some still don't.

 

[ppauls150]

Ok thanks for that so basically gonna have to just accept an ESR handicap cut? I've gone into cat 2 now with that adjustment. Can you be done more than once under the ESR system if I for instance go and shoot a 64 nett next week?

 

[Old Skier]

Can you be done more than once under the ESR system if I for instance go and shoot a 64 nett next week?

Not 100% sure but I think you go back to two good scores

 

[Region3]

Yes, the second of your scores (Nett -4) is now a new trigger for any subsequent scores of -4 or better to initiate another ESR reduction.

As OldSkier said, I also wasn't sure if you now had a clean slate or the 2nd of your good scores was now the first in a new sequence.

I found the info here, all the handicapping info you could want to know.

http://www.englandgolf.org/library-media\documents\English Web Version(2).pdf

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

hey - good playing to get your handicap down though

 

[Foxholer]

I was wondering if someone can give me advice on if I should contest a handicap cut which seems to have been done probably under general play or something.
I've been a member of a golf club for about 10 months and was given a handicap of 16. I thought I was better than that and asked to play off 15. After 10 rounds I had played badly and went up to 16. Practiced over the winter months and come the start of summer won a stableford comp with 44 points SSS being 69 and was docked 3 shots for it which I dint mind. New handicap 13. I've played another stableford comp on Wednesday didn't win came second with 41 points shot 78 with SSS Being 68. I was docked 1 shot plus a further 2 shots by the handicap committee which I think is harsh. In all other comps that I've played in since April have been medals and since I started at the gold club never shot below par in a medal with my comps so far since April being a 90 92 92 89 91 and a NR. Inbetween that has been the two stableford rounds of 44 and 41 points which where I think both 78s. Is it fair to be adjusted a further 2 shots on Wednesday from 13 to 10 for shooting a 41 with my only two decent rounds being in a stableford as I can't keep the consistency together in any medal comps I play to.

Ok thanks for that so basically gonna have to just accept an ESR handicap cut? I've gone into cat 2 now with that adjustment. Can you be done more than once under the ESR system if I for instance go and shoot a 64 nett next week?

Does seem to be the result of an ESR.

Though it seems to me you might need to reconsider what you are using your Handicap for.

Is it as a reflection of your Golfing ability - in which case the ESR has set you at about the correct level (you played to 10 over the SS of the day). Or is it something to be used to be 'competitive' with mates, who don't have an official handicap, in casual rounds?

If it's the latter, then I fear you'll be constantly disappointed, as the Handicap system is designed to put everyone on a level footing, which tends to be a struggle to perform to - even, eventually, for improvers like yourself!

Just keep practicing, improving an enjoying the Game! Let your Handicap change according to results - and get used to being mid-table (or occasionally worse) with the occasional glimpses of brilliance feeling great, but handicapping your competitiveness for the future!

 

[ppauls150]

Thanks all for sorting it out. I want to be lower I want to improve and get to lower figures but obviously not just by some over zealous handicap secretary who seemed to be in a mood on Wednesday and called himself the hatchet of handicapping. My goal is to try and win our club championship next month so to do that I hve to shoot low scores for that. Just having two good rounds out of my last 9 rounds seemed a bit harsh to lose 6 shots that's all

 

[rosecott]

Thanks all for sorting it out. I want to be lower I want to improve and get to lower figures but obviously not just by some over zealous handicap secretary who seemed to be in a mood on Wednesday and called himself the hatchet of handicapping. My goal is to try and win our club championship next month so to do that I hve to shoot low scores for that. Just having two good rounds out of my last 9 rounds seemed a bit harsh to lose 6 shots that's all

So, your handicap is now 10 but in those two rounds you played to 8 and 9. I think the system has you bang to rights.

 

[DCB]

So, your handicap is now 10 but in those two rounds you played to 8 and 9. I think the system has you bang to rights.

+1

 

[duncan mackie]

So, your handicap is now 10 but in those two rounds you played to 8 and 9. I think the system has you bang to rights.

Indeed...

Whilst the ESR system currently retains the second score it will change from next year to wipe the slate clean.

Personally I believe this is a backward step - we haven't had anyone who hasn't gone on to go lower following an ESR but I understand the tapering going on heading for 2020.

 

[Old Skier]

Indeed...

Whilst the ESR system currently retains the second score it will change from next year to wipe the slate clean.

Personally I believe this is a backward step - we haven't had anyone who hasn't gone on to go lower following an ESR but I understand the tapering going on heading for 2020.

Agreed but while it's not mandatory the system is floored.

 

[duncan mackie]

Agreed but while it's not mandatory the system is floored.

You would have to say the same thing about the AR recommendations then (and probably would!)

If it mandatory then you would just integrate it in the system - on the face of it this makes sense but (big but) both AR and ESR remain recommendations (in the case of an ESR the committee need a good reason not to implement) to keep the committee involved as much as anything.

So the real issue quickly becomes whether it's better overall to have committees to provide an element of balance or whether leaving it to a fine tuned system is the right way to go.

Theoretically you would want a conciosious committee every time ... but then again the be benovelent dictator is vastly superior to any other political system (in theory!)

 

[rosecott]

but then again the be benovelent dictator is vastly superior to any other political system (in theory!)

Ah, recognition at last - I will sleep well tonight.

 

[Old Skier]

Agreed, but if only let's say 70% of clubs are implementing the ESR and 30% don't, the 30% could be gaining an unfair advantage if by not implementing the ESR on some of their top squad players.