Hack Golf initiative

[NBonfield]

Hi all,

I wanted to draw everyone's attention to a new initiative called 'Hack Golf'. It was formed by a group of industry leaders last week and is designed to attract submissions and suggestions from the golfing community - via http://www.hackgolf.org - on how to stop the decline in golf participation, attract more players and make the game more fun. What's more, the best ideas will be identified and Hack Golf will work with the golf industry to fund and prototype one of more of these ideas. Read more: http://www.golf-monthly.co.uk/tours...lf-initiative-launched-to-help-grow-golf.html.

If you're passionate about the game, why not submit your ideas and suggestions? Who knows, your idea could be endorsed! I'd also be intrigued to see your views on the main barriers to growth, and your comments on the poll. 

Hope all is well,

Nick

 

[Deleted member 1147]

Personally I think it is expense, for all parties, players and clubs.

£500 to £1,000 for sub's is a lot of money in times when most of us don't have huge amounts of spare cash. As such people won't spend the requisite amount to start in the game. Add to that the need to buy equipment. It has also led to people giving the game up as their main hobby, only playing a limited amount of golf (green fees), rather than paying annual sub's.

Then you have the clubs themselves, they can't afford to keep courses at their peak in terms of maintenance and appearance, due to the cost of green keepers salaries & equipment costs (maintenance & purchase).
Then, if players aren't happy with the club they will move or give up, and the course suffers even more.
It becomes something of a vicious circle.

 

[Deleted member 18121]

Personally I think it's seen as an old man sport....at least that's what my non golfing mates have always said. Followed by how expensive it can be to participate.

 

[jimbob.someroo]

For me there's multiple barriers to entry at the moment.

It's intimidating (and time consuming) to head down to a course as a complete novice, try and understand all the rules, whilst staying out of the way of 'proper golfers' and keeping it under four hours. But, bashing balls at the range doesn't seem to qualify as playing golf.

One solution would be to have 'novice' courses. Or even novice days on existing courses. There would be fewer holes, and these would be shorter so as to ensure it's not demoralising taking 10 shots to get to the green. The gap between groups would be larger so as not to put too much pressure on those participating, but each group would play with an established golfer who emphasised the speed at which they 'should' be playing once they get the hang of it. The 'established' golfer could also be there to give tips and advice on both swings and the rules. Whatsmore, they could be paid a % of the takings. For example, it might cost £20 a head for a three ball, of which 1/3 went to the 'established' golfer. I would take this one stage further as well and make the course as simple as possible - no steep bunkers, short rough and larger holes (obviously not all of these would be feasible if playing on a proper course).

Genuinely, if I happened to come into some money it's what I'd do - a nine hole 'novice' course, with relaxed rules on clothing etc but which provides an opportunity for people to get used to going around a course and playing golf on grass, rather from range mats. Would be a great stepping stone for juniors or those new to the game, or just a past time for those who want a knock with their mates without playing £50 a head for 18 holes on a proper course.

Would love to also have a range and coach(es) there for people to use it to get to the level of being able to join a club if they so desired.

C'mon the Euromillions!

 

[In_The_Rough]

Negative perceptions I think is the biggest hurdle closely followed expense. It has improved from what it has been in the past but still has a long way to go. This is demonstrated on here by some of the threads and what people have experienced

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I think the problem is people between the age of 20-40 have bigger priorities in life , careers and family are being built in those years and a £1000 a year is a lot for those people to pay out

A lot of clubs are trying to attract this age group ( more so the 20-30 ) by offering reduced membership rates plus other coaching packages

But it will always come down to money - golf isn't a cheap game to play and it isn't cheap for golf clubs to keep running

The biggest way to get people into golf is to find a way to make it more financially accessible to a wider audience

 

[NBonfield]

For me there's multiple barriers to entry at the moment.

It's intimidating (and time consuming) to head down to a course as a complete novice, try and understand all the rules, whilst staying out of the way of 'proper golfers' and keeping it under four hours. But, bashing balls at the range doesn't seem to qualify as playing golf.

One solution would be to have 'novice' courses. Or even novice days on existing courses. There would be fewer holes, and these would be shorter so as to ensure it's not demoralising taking 10 shots to get to the green. The gap between groups would be larger so as not to put too much pressure on those participating, but each group would play with an established golfer who emphasised the speed at which they 'should' be playing once they get the hang of it. The 'established' golfer could also be there to give tips and advice on both swings and the rules. Whatsmore, they could be paid a % of the takings. For example, it might cost £20 a head for a three ball, of which 1/3 went to the 'established' golfer. I would take this one stage further as well and make the course as simple as possible - no steep bunkers, short rough and larger holes (obviously not all of these would be feasible if playing on a proper course).

Genuinely, if I happened to come into some money it's what I'd do - a nine hole 'novice' course, with relaxed rules on clothing etc but which provides an opportunity for people to get used to going around a course and playing golf on grass, rather from range mats. Would be a great stepping stone for juniors or those new to the game, or just a past time for those who want a knock with their mates without playing £50 a head for 18 holes on a proper course.

Would love to also have a range and coach(es) there for people to use it to get to the level of being able to join a club if they so desired.

C'mon the Euromillions!

I like a lot of those ideas, but novice days on courses would be sure to rile members, and I just don't think it would be viable - given demand - to build, maintain and market a course purely for novices. It's a good concept in theory, but wider factors dictate. Still, post it on the Hack Golf website - it's an idea that could get some traction.

 

[Duckster]

Id' say it's all money money money! When I was starting out (granted a fair few years ago) my first set of used irons cost £35 off the market (I still have them in the garage as a back up set if people visit). You simply don't get offers like that anymore. I could play at the 9 holer or my local muni for about £7 a round.

Now all that people see are adverts for drivers for £199 in a sale! Or weekends away for £79. Now, we golfers may think that's cheap but a non-golfer see's it as £199 for a single club or £79 for a round of golf. They never even entertain playing due to the cost.

 

[bluewolf]

From personal experience, I would say that the biggest hurdle is the image of the sport. I've tried on several occasions to get my kids interested in Golf, and every time they've refused because it's "Boring". They do watch it with me sometimes and they just can't work out why it takes so long to play a shot. They are confused by some of the rules and they struggle to find a modern player that piques their interest.

Golf is in dire need of characters on the course. We need a Seve or a Travino. Someone that the kids can follow as a personality rather than just a metronomic modern professional who says the right things at the right time. At the moment, the only player my kids do like is Rory. He may act petulantly at times, but at least he's interesting to watch...

Edit - With regards to the cost. My Club offers a 6 month free trial period for Juniors. If they still want to play after that then they pay a much reduced membership. I have a set of kids clubs under the stairs that cost the extravagant sum of £35... That's as cheap an intro to sport as you are likely to get...

 

[jimbob.someroo]

I like a lot of those ideas, but novice days on courses would be sure to rile members, and I just don't think it would be viable - given demand - to build, maintain and market a course purely for novices. It's a good concept in theory, but wider factors dictate. Still, post it on the Hack Golf website - it's an idea that could get some traction.

I'm not sure they would. If you had one a month on a midweek afternoon it would bring some money into the club and given enough notice, members could arrange their games accordingly around it. What's more, it would potentially limit the number of novices playing at peak times - especially summer weekend mornings - as they would be directed towards these novice days first. Several times last year a group of 8 or so new female members went out a midday on a Sunday and took 3+ hours to complete 8 holes. I LOVE that we're getting more new people involved but the above scenario would suit all parties as members wouldn't be stuck behind them frothing from the mouth!

I also think a novice 9 hole would really work in an area with plenty of proper courses already established. It would act as a feeder for a lot of these clubs and ensure that people felt comfortable with both the rules and their skill level before jumping in with two feet. It would also provide a much less costly way of 'trying' golf before making the commitment of a £1k + membership package.

I'm only thinking of my own area but there is a 9 hole course attached to one of the driving ranges and were this to be run as a novices course, in conjunction with the 10+ clubs within 20 miles, I'm sure that it's revenue would increase and that the clubs would see their membership increase slightly over time as people get bitten by the bug after trying it in a less intimidating environment.

Just my 2p though

 

[IanG]

I like a lot of those ideas, but novice days on courses would be sure to rile members, and I just don't think it would be viable - given demand - to build, maintain and market a course purely for novices. It's a good concept in theory, but wider factors dictate. Still, post it on the Hack Golf website - it's an idea that could get some traction.

To show what can be done if the will is there take a look at Hermitage Golf http://www.hermitagescotland.co.uk and
the 'Wee Braids' http://www.edinburghleisure.co.uk/venues/wee-braids-golf-course,
two setups in Edinburgh trying to cater for the newbie market. The Wee Braids in particular is excellent for those transitioning from the range to a full blown course.

 

[Imurg]

As has been said, Time and Money are the biggest factors.
There's not a great deal you can do about the money side.
Equipment costs, playing costs too, and there's been a squeeze on pay for a while now.
Let's face it, if it came down to playing at the weekend or having to sleep in a Bunker because your house has been reposessed I'm not sure many would appreciate a sandy pillow...but it can be done cheaply. Buying 2nd hand and taking advantage of membership offers can keep the real cost per round down to respctable levels. Isn't it more expensive to watch Premiership footy?
The time issue has been attempted in the past.
PowerPlay lived and seems to have died...9 holes, 2 flags - a kind of 20:20 Golf but little real interest.
And to be fair, if a round lasts 4 hours plus a bit in the bar it's taking up a similar amount of time to a footy match (unless you live on the doorstep). Cricket takes all day, sometimes 3 or 4 (rarely 5 these days).
But having to taxi the kids, do the shopping, spend time with HID etc etc eats into available time. Weekends are when most can play but Weekends is often when we're at our busiest.
New players might find it ok to just play 9, thereby halving the required time but more established Hackers, I think, will just feel short-changed if they have to only play half a game

 

[pokerjoke]

Imo the way to get people back into golf starts in the schools.
If we carry on going at the rate of people leaving the game,we now need the next generation.
So in 5-15 years time we may have 5 million new golfers.
After school clubs concentrate on Football,netball etc.
We need to get people into schools promoting golf to the Headmasters and teachers.
We have to make it affordable,as cheap as possible,if you can play football after school for a quid
we have to make golf a quid.
We need schools putting money into golf,where they go to local ranges to play.
We need ranges to offer schools cheap deals,they have to speculate to accumulate,these children
will be there future revenue.
We see kids playing football on pitches,sometimes 20-40 kids,how many kids do
we see on a golf course?
The club I used to play at had juniors on the course,they had weekend sessions,however
these were a fiver a time,imo they have to be cheaper.
Pros need to give something back,virtually for nothing.
2hrs on a Saturday or Sunday is nothing.
I would give my time for free no problems.
We have to get away from the kids shouldn't be on the course attitude,imo the course is where
to teach kids.
I take mine on the course,teach him etiquette,so when he is old enough to play alone he knows
the rights and wrongs.
In this country the weathers a lottery sometimes we cant play for weeks,we need more indoor
facilities.
All this takes money I know but if we are losing so many players from the game,someone has
to invest.
Theres billions of pounds in golf,so how about giving some of it to grass roots instead of making
multi millionaires,multi multi millionaires.

 

[cookelad]

Every option above could be a major factor, I agree with Jimbob as well - if you want to become a part of a club (not just a member) I imagine it would be quite intimidating as a novice to try to break into a group if everywhere you look are experienced/able golfers!

For me the main problem is the cost, I know most will start on driving ranges, munis etc with cheap and cheerful second hand clubs, but if you heard a golfer in the pub or wherever describing how (s)he had just paid £1,500 for a years subs and £800 for a new set of irons to go alongside his £300 driver and so on you're hardly going to be in a rush to sign up are you?

 

[Doh]

I think that clubs have to target family's and groups like golf society's and other organized groups and sporting clubs. Give them the opportunity to try something different with group sessions/lessons.
People will tend to try something if they have someone they know who will go along and share their interest.
Attracting singles is difficult enough as it is clubs have got to bite the bullet and start thinking outside the box. The experience people have when they go to the club has got to be inclusive of all who visit.

 

[rickg]

delc's going to have a field day on this thread!!!!

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Id' say it's all money money money! When I was starting out (granted a fair few years ago) my first set of used irons cost £35 off the market (I still have them in the garage as a back up set if people visit). You simply don't get offers like that anymore. I could play at the 9 holer or my local muni for about £7 a round.

Now all that people see are adverts for drivers for £199 in a sale! Or weekends away for £79. Now, we golfers may think that's cheap but a non-golfer see's it as £199 for a single club or £79 for a round of golf. They never even entertain playing due to the cost.

I believe that there is also a perception that to play golf and not be laughed at you have to have half decent gear - and the manufacturers feed that perception with their equipment releases - and magazines proclaiming how great this that or the other club is. Whether we like it or not there is a lot of one-upmanship and snobbery around equipment and what you wear that just wasn't the case for the ordinary golfer (such as myself) 30yrs ago. I admit to having been elbowed into buying a new putter by fellow members bluntly laughing at me with my old-fashioned 30yr old bulls-eye putter - when it shouldn't be any one else's business what clubs I use, the state of my bag, the ball I use and the clothes I wear (subject to reasonable dress codes).

What other sport sets perceptions in potential players that they could be laughed at if they didn't have the right stuff or if they couldn't afford it. On the other hand we are a sport that sets expectations in the 13-21 age group on them to wear the clothes that we wore playing golf 30 yrs ago and of the style that middle aged guys wear today.

I'm actually starting to think that I would almost completely remove dress code for that age group - their taste in dress will evolve
as they get older and converge with traditional dress code. What actual harm does it do in truth? Maybe a more strict code is applied for comps. My lad played last year (not round my track) wearing skinny black jeans, white socks and a 'metal band' t-shirt. He felt comfortable and enjoyed the knock - and would play again. Would he play if he had to wear slacks and a polo shirt? A lot less liekly I'd say as he NEVER dresses that way and would just feel awkward.

Youth have to feel comfortable wearing what they want and playing with the gear they pick up - adhere to etiquette and rules of golf - otherwise get on with it.

This is a fair way from where I'd normally stand on these things but actually - as long as I am comfortable in what I am wearing and playing - and not being offended by the dress or antics of others - then what do I have to complain about? (yes I know - plenty if I thought about it - but I'm trying not to think about the past )

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I think that clubs have to target family's and groups like golf society's and other organized groups and sporting clubs. Give them the opportunity to try something different with group sessions/lessons.
People will tend to try something if they have someone they know who will go along and share their interest.
Attracting singles is difficult enough as it is clubs have got to bite the bullet and start thinking outside the box. The experience people have when they go to the club has got to be inclusive of all who visit.

Indeed - so a club offers group memberships to local businesses, shops, sports clubs and other organisations such as local churches, scout groups. Means that like-minded individuals not currently playing or members can through the club network that is set up to link all of the groups get to know of each and get together for practice, lessons, a game, organise meets, comps etc. All facilitated by the club.

The club becomes the/a hub for the local golfing community - with spokes (membership) to all of the groups - all linked together by the rim. Sorry for the wheel analogy but the rim of the spoked wheel is the internet - the comms channel using which groups communicate with each other independant of the club and organise things - with the club at the core - the hub.

 

[Captainron]

Cost for me. Buying a second hand set, bag, getting the right clothing and footwear, balls and parafenalia plus the cost of a round would be upwards of £100 easy. Lots of outlay initially. Now suppose that you're horrid at it and want lessons. Having kids is cheaper than golf!!

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Cost for me. Buying a second hand set, bag, getting the right clothing and footwear, balls and parafenalia plus the cost of a round would be upwards of £100 easy. Lots of outlay initially. Now suppose that you're horrid at it and want lessons. Having kids is cheaper than golf!!

Many of us have previous sets of clubs in lofts and garage and cellars. Shoes - can't you get these rubber shoes with the kiltie any more (or equivalent) - what I started with. Cheap and cheerful and did me for many years - £15-20 max I'd expect these days.

EDIT - after a quick search - this sort of thing.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mountain-Wa...TF8&qid=1390851160&sr=1-9&keywords=golf+shoes

So that's the shoes sorted. Trousers and shirt and jersey - we'll all already have them so no expenditure required. Leaves bag and clubs. Get a second hand set for well under £50. Sorted.