GUR / Casual water in bunker

[virtuocity]

Heavy rain caused out bunkers to fill up and most were GUR.

I thought if it was GUR that you could take a free drop out of it but before the round we were told that you had to drop and take a penalty. Is this a local decision?

Also other bunkers were not marked as GUR but were full of water. We were told that we could drop in the bunker in a dry area for free or drop out of the bunker for a one shot penalty if the whole bunker was under water.

Thoughts?

 

[Imurg]

If specific bunkers are deemed GUR then you can drop out for free.
If a bunker is not deemed GUR but is full of water then you have to drop out of it under penalty unless you can drop inside or play it. In many eyes this isn't fair but the argument is "don't go in the bunker to start with"
Personally, I think if a bunker is full of water it should be deemed GUR unless it is likely to drain during the day. I know if some of ours are full now they'll still be full next day.

 

[Old Skier]

GUR bunkers at RND are marked and have a specific drop zone marked. None marked bunkers are in play and you may drop in the dry area of the bunker under no penalty.

 

[williamalex1]

gur bunkers at rnd are marked and have a specific drop zone marked. None marked bunkers are in play and you may drop in the dry area of the bunker under no penalty.

yes but not nearer the hole.

 

[Colin L]

I thought if it was GUR that you could take a free drop out of it but before the round we were told that you had to drop and take a penalty. Is this a local decision?

It's Rule 25-1b(ii), not a local decision. You can drop without penalty elsewhere in the bunker and unlike relief through the green from an abnormal ground condition like casual water, you can if necessary drop where the water interferes least. (Through the green you must take complete relief.) If you choose to drop outside the bunker that incurs a penalty stroke as said above and you must drop along the line from the hole through your ball, as far back as you wish.

As said above, local rule may be introduced deeming a particular bunker GUR in which case you can drop outside without penalty.

 

[rulefan]

Such a Local Rule can only be used in exceptional circumstances, where certain specific bunkers are completely flooded and there is no reasonable likelihood of the bunkers drying up during the round.
Prior to introducing such a Local Rule, the Committee must be convinced that such exceptional circumstances exist and that providing relief without penalty from specific bunkers is more appropriate than simply applying Rule 25-1b(ii).

 

[HawkeyeMS]

Heavy rain caused out bunkers to fill up and most were GUR.

I thought if it was GUR that you could take a free drop out of it but before the round we were told that you had to drop and take a penalty. Is this a local decision?

Also other bunkers were not marked as GUR but were full of water. We were told that we could drop in the bunker in a dry area for free or drop out of the bunker for a one shot penalty if the whole bunker was under water.

Thoughts?

If they are GUR and taken out of play (not that they can do that except under exceptional circumstances as Rulefan says) then they can't insist you take a penalty drop. They are either in play in which case you decide which drop option to take, or they are out of play in which case you drop without penalty.

I would say that this decision would make the comp a NQ.

 

[Old Skier]

If they are GUR and taken out of play (not that they can do that except under exceptional circumstances as Rulefan says) then they can't insist you take a penalty drop. They are either in play in which case you decide which drop option to take, or they are out of play in which case you drop without penalty.

I would say that this decision would make the comp a NQ.

Are you saying that if some, not all bunkers are deemed GUR this causes the comp to be a NQ. Could you point me in the direction where this is stated as it is an area I am interested in.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

Are you saying that if some, not all bunkers are deemed GUR this causes the comp to be a NQ. Could you point me in the direction where this is stated as it is an area I am interested in.

No, I'm saying if the committee force you to take a penalty drop out of a GUR bunker it should be NQ. If they deem a bunker so bad that it is out of play, they can't then make you take a penalty drop if you go in it.

 

[Foxholer]

No, I'm saying if the committee force you to take a penalty drop out of a GUR bunker it should be NQ. If they deem a bunker so bad that it is out of play, they can't then make you take a penalty drop if you go in it.

I presume you mean that that's because they are not playing the competition by the Rules of Golf - which automatically makes the comp NQ. Same as if the huge bucket holes are used on Temporary Greens.

 

[rulefan]

I would say that this decision would make the comp a NQ.

I have had a ruling from the EGU (as was) saying if there were more than a few such bunkers it would be NQ.
Informally, 'three or four' was indicated but it was suggested that advice be taken from the county or national body if more were involved.

 

[rulefan]

The committee may specify that play is prohibited from the bunker (in fact it is no longer a bunker (hazard), just an area of 'Through the Green' which has been deemed GUR). But they cannot impose a penalty for taking relief, whether relief is optional or not.

 

[Old Skier]

I have had a ruling from the EGU (as was) saying if there were more than a few such bunkers it would be NQ.
Informally, 'three or four' was indicated but it was suggested that advice be taken from the county or national body if more were involved.

That was my understanding, it had to be a number of bunkers before it becoming a NQ after advice from county.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

I presume you mean that that's because they are not playing the competition by the Rules of Golf - which automatically makes the comp NQ. Same as if the huge bucket holes are used on Temporary Greens.

Indeed

 

[HawkeyeMS]

I have had a ruling from the EGU (as was) saying if there were more than a few such bunkers it would be NQ.
Informally, 'three or four' was indicated but it was suggested that advice be taken from the county or national body if more were involved.

That's fine, the point I was making however was that even if they only had one bunker out and marked as GUR, they can't force you to take a penalty drop and doing so would surely be against the rules and make the comp NQ?

 

[Old Skier]

That's fine, the point I was making however was that even if they only had one bunker out and marked as GUR, they can't force you to take a penalty drop and doing so would surely be against the rules and make the comp NQ?

No penalty for taking a drop from a bunker deemed GUR and I think, that's what rulfan wrote.

 

[rulefan]

That's fine, the point I was making however was that even if they only had one bunker out and marked as GUR, they can't force you to take a penalty drop and doing so would surely be against the rules and make the comp NQ?

Forcing you to take a penalty for dropping from GUR would be modifying a Rule of Golf. They are expressly forbidden from doing this. If they did, the comp would be NQ and any attempt to report the the results as a Q to the CDH could have dire consequences for the club..