Good practice for maintenance of fringes

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Two holes, a long downhill par 3 with a two level green and a shortish downhill par 4. Both have very steep drop offs at the back into rough rough. The par 3 needs a 160 yd carry to the lower level where the pin usually is. If you are short, you are faced with a very difficult second as only a lob shot from a downhill lie gives the only sure chance of not rolling through the green and down the bank. The downhill par 4 offers similar difficulty. If you lay up and hit a wedge and hit the green you are OK. If you are a yard or so short, you hit a downslope and go through. For many players, who aren't confident of hitting high shots, the temptation is to drive and then attempt to play a downhill pitch and run which almost inevitably trickles through. Both back fringes are cut very short which means that even if the ball arrives at 00.1 mph it's a goner. My question is - is this just a fair part of the challenge or would it be reasonable to ask for a " cuff" of semi to be created at the back of both greens?
 
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Surely that’s what makes the holes challenging/interesting and motivation to improve your skill set. You’ll be asking for trees to be moved next ha. Merry Xmas
 

Lord Tyrion

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My course has 2 or 3 slightly raised greens with drop offs at their back. We have the grass a little longer to catch the ball. If it is shaved then it becomes a bit Mickey Mouse imo, slows the hole up considerably as well.
 

Imurg

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We tend to have a slightly raised back of the green or a collar of semi rough to catch a slow moving ball
But if its going any sort of speed then you're over the back.
This sort of thing should be taken care of by the Slope...a more straightforward hole for the low guys but tricky for the higher handicapper...
We have several holes that are really hard for players like Fragger to par simply because he doesn't have the shots to do it. So we have a fairly high Slope so most get more shots
That's golf.
Accept that you won't make par very often, maybe find a different way to play it...or get better..
If it's that tricky a hole you'll probably get a shot or even 2 on it...use them.
 
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HomerJSimpson

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Two holes, a long downhill par 3 with a two level green and a shortish downhill par 4. Both have very steep drop offs at the back into rough rough. The par 3 needs a 160 yd carry to the lower level where the pin usually is. If you are short, you are faced with a very difficult second as only a lob shot from a downhill lie gives the only sure chance of not rolling through the green and down the bank. The downhill par 4 offers similar difficulty. If you lay up and hit a wedge and hit the green you are OK. If you are a yard or so short, you hit a downslope and go through. For many players, who aren't confident of hitting high shots, the temptation is to drive and then attempt to play a downhill pitch and run which almost inevitably trickles through. Both back fringes are cut very short which means that even if the ball arrives at 00.1 mph it's a goner. My question is - is this just a fair part of the challenge or would it be reasonable to ask for a " cuff" of semi to be created at the back of both greens?
Simple answer is get on with it. If you grow a cuff it still needs to be maintained and if the green keepers decide to make it a thicker cut then no guarantee if you go into it you'll have much control coming out. You don't mention the SI of these holes but I would imagine a large number would get shots
 

Tashyboy

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I have said exactly the same at our place, we have a dog leg right up hill, Par four, it needs An excellent drive to be able to hit the green with the second shot. The back of the green drops down massively. The rhs is Gruffalo wood. Yet it is cut to the bare minimum. Why? You can have everything from 120- 200 yards into the green. The ball rolls through. It can be lost. What do you do. Play a provisional for a ball that has hit the green. Walk up to green, not find ball and walk back. If the grass is 3” long the ball is still a difficult 3rd shot. I don’t get it.
 

Oddsocks

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It would be better to understand the course in question and the op’s game. Could it be that’s it’s a high end course that has a very high sr/difficulty level? Is the OP new yo the game of a high hc…. Or a possible mix of a bit of both?


I like the sound of the holes although I reckon you’d get slow play hotspots
 

Boomy

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Two holes, a long downhill par 3 with a two level green and a shortish downhill par 4. Both have very steep drop offs at the back into rough rough. The par 3 needs a 160 yd carry to the lower level where the pin usually is. If you are short, you are faced with a very difficult second as only a lob shot from a downhill lie gives the only sure chance of not rolling through the green and down the bank. The downhill par 4 offers similar difficulty. If you lay up and hit a wedge and hit the green you are OK. If you are a yard or so short, you hit a downslope and go through. For many players, who aren't confident of hitting high shots, the temptation is to drive and then attempt to play a downhill pitch and run which almost inevitably trickles through. Both back fringes are cut very short which means that even if the ball arrives at 00.1 mph it's a goner. My question is - is this just a fair part of the challenge or would it be reasonable to ask for a " cuff" of semi to be created at the back of both greens?
Sounds like a fair part of the challenge to me. Crikey, there’ll be requests for ‘lane buddies’ down the side of links fairways next to keep shots on the fairway, and back stops on greens so the ball bounces back into the middle.. It’s all part of the learning to me, especially if it’s your home club, as you’ll get plenty of chances to master the way to play the holes. Embrace the challenge and enjoy it🏌🏻‍♂️ focus on learning to play the high shot solution? 😃
 

Neilds

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Things like this affect pace of play and I think all courses need to take the set up of the course into consideration to enable all players to enjoy the course, whilst still being challenged but making sure the pace is maintained
 

Backache

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I'm not really in favour of holes where awkward bounces make lost balls likely, for me it slows the game too much and is over penal on what can be a very fine margin between a good shot and a bad shot. If it is just making a more difficult and challenging shot that is part of the challenge of the course.
 

IanM

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I'm not really in favour of holes where awkward bounces make lost balls likely, for me it slows the game too much and is over penal on what can be a very fine margin between a good shot and a bad shot. If it is just making a more difficult and challenging shot that is part of the challenge of the course.
I'd agree ..but in the OPs example it sounds like not playing the shot properly causes the aggro!
 

Oddsocks

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I'd agree ..but in the OPs example it sounds like not playing the shot properly causes the aggro!
100% course management needs improving. Just because it’s a short p4 doesn’t mean you have to go at it. Sounds like the designer has compensated length with technical challenges. Sounds like they’ve done a great job.
 

DanFST

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I'm not really in favour of holes where awkward bounces make lost balls likely, for me it slows the game too much and is over penal on what can be a very fine margin between a good shot and a bad shot. If it is just making a more difficult and challenging shot that is part of the challenge of the course.
We have a par 535 yard par 5. Dead straight but in summer everything rolls to the left. If you cant play a fade, it rolls down to trees.

SI5, it's a cracking hole.
 

HomerJSimpson

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I remember playing a club match at Tylney Park, probably best part of a decade ago. They had grown a collar of rough down both sides of the hole and around the back of every green. At least six inches in height and so penal. I hit a shot into a green, pitched pin high in the middle of the green, checked and trickled over the back never to be seen again. Apparently up to half their medal fields were simply NR'ing. When we returned the next year it had all been cut back. As a visual on each hole it framed it beautifully but playing it as a mid-handicapper was a real slog
 

clubchamp98

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This really depends on the type of mowers you have.
What do they mow this bank with ?
It would mean mowing it twice to create a semi cuff.
So you would need to show your GK that it’s a nessesary thing.
 

Backache

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I'd agree ..but in the OPs example it sounds like not playing the shot properly causes the aggro!
Yep, I'm not quite sure of the situation, my point was more the punishment. If it's a reasonable possibility of a lost ball off the back, for what sounds like a reasonably common error in strategy/execution the punishment is over severe and also disturbs the entire course in delay.
If it's an awkward pitch back I have no quibble.
 
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Just a bit more info.The par 3 green is raised on the left ,right and back and if you are short on either side, the recovery shot onto the sloping upper level requires the utmost delicacy. Just the slightest misjudgement sees the ball speed up and drop off the back. I'm not asking for a fringe of rubber grass but enough to catch the shots that were nearly but not quite. If you've really hit it too hard or skinned it, the fringe that I envisage wouldn't save you.
It's a similar story on the par 4. 75% of the apron slopes down to the green. So if you are short on the wrong side, the same slightest misjudgement of pace sees the ball speed up and disappear.
I'm off 15 and have the par 4 sorted with a lay up to 100 yards and a wedge.. The par 3 is really difficult - breathe a sigh of relief if I walk off with a 4.
Had a lob lesson the other day and have a Cleveland 60 degree on the way!
 

IanM

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Yep, I'm not quite sure of the situation, my point was more the punishment. If it's a reasonable possibility of a lost ball off the back, for what sounds like a reasonably common error in strategy/execution the punishment is over severe and also disturbs the entire course in delay.
If it's an awkward pitch back I have no quibble.
Understood... bit like the second at Southerndown. When it's dry and running a decent shot can run through the green and into the gorse very easily
 

jim8flog

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If greens and every shot were all easy would we give up the game.

If both greens were easy that would be 2 shots off your handicap.
 
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