Golf Participation

[Tongo]

The article below makes interesting reading:

www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/golf/30491539

However, rather than making daft suggestions about how to get youngsters playing golf why dont the beeb actually add a sense of realism? Or take into account the following:

1.) Participation numbers in people under 25 has fallen dramatically in the last 5/6 years. In that time the country has been in and out of recession and experienced real economic problems. And we are being told that it is the 18-25 age bracket that has suffered the most. Doesnt take a genius to work out the knock-on effect.

2.) The Tiger effect. Tiger came along, making golf sexy and the country experienced an economic boom. Tiger's dominance has waned and the economy has gone to pot. Again, it doesnt take a genius to work out the knock-on effect.

3.) Lack of terrestrial coverage. I was a golf watcher for 2 years before i started in 1999. Back then the beeb televised the Masters, the Open, the World Matchplay, the British Masters, the PGA and the B&H Masters. Half a dozen tournaments a year. Now we have the Open, the women's Open and 2 days of the Masters. How are kids to get interested if there's precious little to attract them? Cricket seems to have the same problem.

4.) Golf is expensive. Even for me as a nomad its still 20-30 quid a round. People havent got as much expendable cash. People have other priorities. And if its a choice between renewing the football season ticket and the golf membership, guess what wins?

5.) It'd be interesting to see how many people at 18 now go to uni compared to 10/15 years ago. And of course they now pay 3k a year for it, so some things go by the wayside.

6.) Are people's expectations too high when / if they start playing? When i began i had a 50 quid set of clubs, some lake balls and played at the local muni to learn the ropes. I played cheap, humble courses but learnt the rudiments of the sport. How many people now look to start with a 500+ quid set of clubs, all the latest clothes and expect to hit the ball 300 yards like Rory etc whilst joining an expensive club?

I'm not saying that the reasons given in the article are not right but its not quite as cut and dried as perhaps made out.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Under 25's - a lot of clubs specifically have age related discounts for just this age bracket and many, including my own are gradually beginning to introduce a younger demographic into the club. It won't be an overnight thing and will take several years to fully get the benefit but while they are still getting discounts it makes it likelier they will stay as members

McIlroy has taken on the Woods mantle and will take the game forward in the next few years. Being British it's to be hoped the powers that be can use he's brilliance and popularity to its full effect and use it as a serious marketing tool to attract new young golfers

Terrestrial coverage. The BBC has no real interest in live sport. Aside from the "crown jewels" there's no investment in nay sport and golf would be a long way down the pecking order anyway. Sky offer's a weekly tournament during the European season plus of course US golf, most of the majors and the RC. That's just the way it is and to be honest a lot of people have access to Sky these days, or at least the choice to do so and coverage is there if they want it. I think in the days of social media and global coverage, new golfers are fully aware of what's going on in the game

Golf doesn't have to be expensive. A cheap polo and trousers from Primark and a cheap pair of shoes plus a second hand set for maybe £100. Green fees aren't always expensive depending on when you play. It's about priorities and you can't legislate for people wanting a season ticket for football and golf membership and it's up to golf clubs to entice people which goes back to the age related brackets and maybe no joining fees.

Golf can be accessible at universities and to be honest I know a lot of golfers who have managed to retain their membership through the junior ranks and into the adult side of things while combining it with studies.

It's like anything. Get the basics right and invest in some lessons to start with to learn the fundamentals and you're better set up to play and enjoy the game. Did you simply buy a car and go out and drive it straight away or take lessons? Plenty of accessible courses and most people are realistic about their ability and there's no need to fork out immediately for membership or top of the range gear

To that effect I agree the article is perhaps misleading but it's creating a talking point and that has to be good. Golf needs investment at grass roots level (as does cricket and even football these days) but do you address it as a whole or look at root causes and tackle each one?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

BBC do have an interest in Sport but the BBC isn't a dedicated Sports Channel and has to cater for everyone and not just sports fans

They can't afford to pay some of the prices for the big tournament and they won't pay to cover tournaments during the week because a lot more people would complain about golf being on because it's not catering for the demographic.

 

[3565]

The lack of 18-25 yr olds in golf clubs is pretty self explanatory, just think back to what you were doing through them 7 yrs of your life! You may of been at collage, uni getting into debt to improve your education to find the better paying jobs, or if not at uni, trying to find a decent paying job and if you did your only probable interest was the weekend going out on the lash and on the pull staying out all hours and not getting up at stupid o'clock over the weekend to go play the weekend medal...... I know I stopped playing golf from 17 to 25, my only interest thru that time was rock music, playing in bands going to gigs, and travelling the country to various Rock night clubs much to the annoyance from my dad who said I would of been a better golfer if I had stuck with it or got to be a club pro! And now I'm older and wiser he was right, but I got no regrets as I enjoyed myself then.

Clubs will struggle to attract this age range to be members and stay as members and cost has a lot to do with it, it's the 25 -30's they need to concentrate on.

 

[GB72]

Playing devils advocate a bit here but do many clubs and club golfers really have any interest or desire to spread the game. Are they not happy with their traditions, rules and nobody in the clubhouse under the age of 50. Yes they may pay lip service to the idea of broadening the appeal of the game and may make some gestures if membership numbers drop but even then they would rather attract more people of the same ilk as those that already play rather than look to a new audience. Part of me thinks that many clubs are perfectly happy that golf remains a male, middle class, middle aged hobby and still see golf club membership as a social status thing and really have no interest or desire to change that. Maybe part of the problem is that there is little change or effort to recruit new markets because those in charge of clubs that are not run for strict profit really do not want it.

 

[Tongo]

Wow, the beed have really got it in for golf at the moment. Could they have picked to extreme, biased piccies to make their point: super cool Bradley Wiggins as opposed to three particularly awkward gentlemen.

www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/golf/30422698

I get what they are saying about people taking to cycling in their droves but i cant take it seriously as a spectator sport. I remember watching the TDF for year after year, witnessing the likes of Indurain and Armstrong dominate the sport. I loved the endurance of the mountain stages and the raw speed of the time trials, particularly the epic climbs of Alpe d'Huez. And i also used to watch the Vuelta and the one day classics on Eurosport and particularly enjoyed the exploits of Johan Museeuw. But the whole drugs thing has permanently tarnished it all for me. Now you watch the TDF thinking which of these fellas is gonna be busted next. Armstrong's deception and it being uncovered were the final half a dozen nails in the coffin.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I think the article Isn't far from the truth

It's not really the TDF that is creating the Cycling Boom - it's the performances in the Olympics

I know at least 4 from our club who have left golf to do more cycling

 

[Tongo]

I think the article Isn't far from the truth

It's not really the TDF that is creating the Cycling Boom - it's the performances in the Olympics

I know at least 4 from our club who have left golf to do more cycling

Undoubtedly so. My comments were related to the highest echelon of the sport rather than the everyday stuff. Plus the extremely biased choice of pictures.

 

[chrisd]

The truth is that every sport is targeting the youngsters these days and mum and dad take their kids to football on a Monday, karate on a Tuesday ...... Dancing on a Friday so, generally only a child of a golfer is likely to play golf more than any other club/sport at any given time

Also 30 is the old 20, my generation did not go to Uni or college as a rule, we married in our early 20's and had children. Nowadays that happens more in their 30's so they have younger children than the age we had, mortgages are new and high and many are paying off university debts. My son is a relatively high earning 31 year old who didn't do uni but couldn't possibly play regular golf and won't, I guess, until he's 40+ when the children get older and the disposable income more.

So I think that clubs offering discounts etc to attract this demographic are to some extent peeing in the wind (but not wrong in trying) whereas if they looked at the 50 year olds who have more disposable income but maybe are embarrassed to try golf and don't know any golfers to play with and put time and effort into helping them and integrating them, the rewards would be financially greater as their are no financial inducements to give away. The retention of members is ignored by to many clubs who, it seems to me, want the money but don't want to help people play when they join. Help this age group and I'm sure there is a chance of boosting most clubs membership.

 

[FairwayDodger]

Looks like golf club membership is in terminal decline, for lots of reasons as discussed but, essentially because the times have changed and golf hasn't.

I think if golf wants to seriously boost its participation numbers then clubs need to change quite radically and in ways that the majority of members possibly wouldn't like. The risk is that some will be driven away in the process but maybe it's getting to the stage where that bluff needs to be called.

I don't know what all these changes would be but wiping out any sense of privilege and inequity would be the first step. Next would be coming up with new subscription structures, maybe a base membership fee augmented on a pay-to-play basis so that people can justify their membership even if they don't play all that much. Then make it easier to take part even if you can only spare a couple of hours or so, more 9 hole comps perhaps.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Sport goes in cycles

At one stage golf had a big boom and now it's on a downslope but "terminal" ?!

Of course it's not terminal - golf and golf clubs will be around for a long time yet and new ones will appear and old ones will disappear

There is one thing that has hit sports where a high cost is involved - the financial crisis

That's the biggest issue - it isn't traditions or stuffyness etc - it's cost

Golf isn't cheap to play and when times are hard people won't pay a lot - cricket , hockey even Rugby has dropped participants in the past 5 years.

One thing I have seen throughout threads is people demanding changes to allow others to play - why should a golf club change for a minority ? Why shouldn't golf clubs run for what the majority want. Start making too many radical changes and the effect will possibly be the opposite

People play sport bevause they want too - golf as a sport hasn't changed and doesn't need to change.

You could make it affordable but it cost money because money is needed to keep courses at the highest possible standard.

Sorry but golf isn't jn "terminal decline"

 

[FairwayDodger]

Golf won't die out, too many of us love playing it for that but it is declining rapidly and has not yet hit bottom.

The product as it stands isn't working. We can keep doing the same thing but it would be madness to expect any different result. Golf clubs need to embrace change.

Maybe we go to a system where you have "beginner" clubs that people join to start with before progressing on to clubs for more serious/committed players. I don't have the answers but the status quo isn't cutting it.

 

[User20205]

It sounds really bad but I'm not fussed if golf membership is in decline. I don't want my place over run with people chopping up the place. I'm not bothered if a few rubbish courses close, the decent places will always be in demand.

 

[Hacker Khan]

Looks like golf club membership is in terminal decline, for lots of reasons as discussed but, essentially because the times have changed and golf hasn't.

I think if golf wants to seriously boost its participation numbers then clubs need to change quite radically and in ways that the majority of members possibly wouldn't like. The risk is that some will be driven away in the process but maybe it's getting to the stage where that bluff needs to be called.

I don't know what all these changes would be but wiping out any sense of privilege and inequity would be the first step. Next would be coming up with new subscription structures, maybe a base membership fee augmented on a pay-to-play basis so that people can justify their membership even if they don't play all that much. Then make it easier to take part even if you can only spare a couple of hours or so, more 9 hole comps perhaps.

Yet again FD has nailed it. Spot on.

 

[Hacker Khan]

Playing devils advocate a bit here but do many clubs and club golfers really have any interest or desire to spread the game. Are they not happy with their traditions, rules and nobody in the clubhouse under the age of 50. Yes they may pay lip service to the idea of broadening the appeal of the game and may make some gestures if membership numbers drop but even then they would rather attract more people of the same ilk as those that already play rather than look to a new audience. Part of me thinks that many clubs are perfectly happy that golf remains a male, middle class, middle aged hobby and still see golf club membership as a social status thing and really have no interest or desire to change that. Maybe part of the problem is that there is little change or effort to recruit new markets because those in charge of clubs that are not run for strict profit really do not want it.

Very good post. Makes a lot of sense.

 

[chrisd]

It sounds really bad but I'm not fussed if golf membership is in decline. I don't want my place over run with people chopping up the place. I'm not bothered if a few rubbish courses close, the decent places will always be in demand.

What a self centered, attitude to the sport we all love - the sad thing is that I pretty much agree!

 

[USER1999]

It sounds really bad but I'm not fussed if golf membership is in decline. I don't want my place over run with people chopping up the place. I'm not bothered if a few rubbish courses close, the decent places will always be in demand.

This really. Some of the 80's built commercial goat tracks need to go under. Supply and demand.

Also, when I started I bought a half set of Wilson blades, and a persimmon 5 wood. They got me an 18 handicap as a start. I moved up to a 3 wood, after a few years (but still preferred my 2i). Next to no one I knew owned a driver. Way too hard to hit.

Entry level now seems to be 14 clubs, normally including an expensive driver, that just gets used for losing balls. What ever happened to 'learning' how to play? 36 handicapped kids losing prov1's with a £400 driver? Crazy.

 

[FairwayDodger]

This really. Some of the 80's built commercial goat tracks need to go under. Supply and demand.

Also, when I started I bought a half set of Wilson blades, and a persimmon 5 wood. They got me an 18 handicap as a start. I moved up to a 3 wood, after a few years (but still preferred my 2i). Next to no one I knew owned a driver. Way too hard to hit.

Entry level now seems to be 14 clubs, normally including an expensive driver, that just gets used for losing balls. What ever happened to 'learning' how to play? 36 handicapped kids losing prov1's with a £400 driver? Crazy.

In the last two years, two clubs (that I'm aware of) local to me have closed.

One of them was over 100 years old, designed by James Braid and Tommy Armour was a former member. More significantly, perhaps, it was one of the cheaper courses in the area and thus provided an entry point to golf club membership.

Check out their website...... http://www.lothianburngc.co.uk/

How many of their members went to other clubs in the area? How many were lost to the game?

We lost a team from our league when they closed, so golf in the area was diminished by their closure.

 

[User20205]

What a self centered, attitude to the sport we all love - the sad thing is that I pretty much agree!

There are those with a vested interest in growing the sport, the r&a, club manufacturers, golf monthly etc. I'm not one of them.

Call me an ostrich but I don't see an issue, and I don't care if Rory didn't win some popularity contest.

 

[USER1999]

In the last two years, two clubs (that I'm aware of) local to me have closed.

One of them was over 100 years old, designed by James Braid and Tommy Armour was a former member. More significantly, perhaps, it was one of the cheaper courses in the area and thus provided an entry point to golf club membership.

Check out their website...... http://www.lothianburngc.co.uk/

How many of their members went to other clubs in the area? How many were lost to the game?

We lost a team from our league when they closed, so golf in the area was diminished by their closure.

But if you lived in the south, where there was a massive burst of golf club building in the 80's and 90's, there are a huge number of featureless golf courses, built on flat farmers fields just waiting to be culled.

It's sad when the wrong ones go west, but may be they were poorly run?