Getting paid for having babies

Mudball

Mudball

Assistant Pro
Joined
Sep 21, 2017
Messages
5,224
Visit site
While the overall population of earthlings continues to grow at a rapid pace, the population in many western countries is declining. This is forcing govts to try different financial incentives to get people to have babies. Interesting BBC article on this
https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20191017-does-it-make-sense-to-pay-people-to-have-kids


Whats the view of a (predominantly) male audience on this forum. A decade ago, we would have loved to have another kid, but i dont think we could afford childcare and both of us have a career. No regrets.

PS: In order to provide another perspective, in other news
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...y-Supermum-Sue-Radford-44-pregnant-again.html
 
Mudball said:
While the overall population of earthlings continues to grow at a rapid pace, the population in many western countries is declining. This is forcing govts to try different financial incentives to get people to have babies. Interesting BBC article on this
https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20191017-does-it-make-sense-to-pay-people-to-have-kids


Whats the view of a (predominantly) male audience on this forum. A decade ago, we would have loved to have another kid, but i dont think we could afford childcare and both of us have a career. No regrets.

PS: In order to provide another perspective, in other news
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...y-Supermum-Sue-Radford-44-pregnant-again.html
Click to expand...
I've seen the artical about that family a few times. Absolutely crazy imo. But they pay their way so fair play to em!

In regards to paying people to have kids. In a remote village I guess it can make sense. Here though 1k a year for 10 years is nothing compared tot he expense for the family and government so I'd not it.

I'm fully of the belief that if you can't afford kids, don't have em. Obviously there will be accidents, or unsavory events that leave women as children and I'm all for helping them. But if you're seeing kids as a way to avoid work. Nope. No symapthy for those.
 
I don't think a population shortage is an issue for us in this country so it is hard to grasp the need. Clearly, some countries are struggling and they have to do what they think is right. All seems a bit odd but in sparse countries may be it makes sense.
 
That’s a helluva size of a family, benefits aside I see comments saying how much the state spends to raise these children just in health & education costs and the effect of such large family’s on climate etc (although I suppose they’re not alone in making a negative contribution, plenty of people ‘take out’ far more than they’ll ever contribute)

And if parts of Finland and other countries are having a problem due to a decrease in population growth then surely this is where the EU would relocate migrants to who have entered Europe?
 
Slab said:
That’s a helluva size of a family, benefits aside I see comments saying how much the state spends to raise these children just in health & education costs and the effect of such large family’s on climate etc (although I suppose they’re not alone in making a negative contribution, plenty of people ‘take out’ far more than they’ll ever contribute)

And if parts of Finland and other countries are having a problem due to a decrease in population growth then surely this is where the EU would relocate migrants to who have entered Europe?
Click to expand...

They take the bare minimum from the state as far as handouts are concerned. Obviously educational and other state costs will be needed. But no real benefits as such.
 
Papas1982 said:
They take the bare minimum from the state as far as handouts are concerned. Obviously educational and other state costs will be needed. But no real benefits as such.
Click to expand...

Yeah I saw that, although its not cheap to cover the education & health costs from 0-18yrs x 20 (+ mum)
(also its maybe a bit creative language between what they claim as 'child benefit' and other types of state income such as child tax credits etc. The articles not really clear)
 
Slab said:
Yeah I saw that, although its not cheap to cover the education & health costs from 0-18yrs x 20 (+ mum)
(also its maybe a bit creative language between what they claim as 'child benefit' and other types of state income such as child tax credits etc. The articles not really clear)
Click to expand...

It does state that they live of just that benefit and then his companies profit. Having seen them a few times. I think they are pretty self sufficient.

Obviously the health costs will be massive. But imo 20 kids raised to show that that can support themselves is better than 3 living off the state.
 
Papas1982 said:
It does state that they live of just that benefit and then his companies profit. Having seen them a few times. I think they are pretty self sufficient.

Obviously the health costs will be massive. But imo 20 kids raised to show that that can support themselves is better than 3 living off the state.
Click to expand...

I'm just too cynical I guess (& 'credit' is not a 'benefit' so we wont count that kind of thing)
(& if it really is all benefits, credits, allowances etc etc then I'll wager Greggs will be sniffing round that retail site because that's a bakery that's very very profitable) :whistle:
 
BTW, this is no thread is no way raising a question of people sponging off the state and at no point am I saying that the family of 22 is doing so. The article says they have a business and they live off that. So fair play to them/
 
The population of the UK is rapidly heading for 70 Million , most of the increase is due to immigration and the births from immigrants. Without immigration the UK population would fall.
 
With regards to the original article in the OP I guess if there is a significant issue of under population in places like Finland and they need to increase that to help future industry of the country having enough of its own people to work then that's fair enough and their own issue to address.

With regards to the 2nd article about the Radfords, there was a documentary on a year or 2 ago following them and their daily lives. If memory serves the father is a Baker by trade and has his own business, works all hours and showed that every penny his businesses made went back into the family & increasing his own revenues to ensure they paid their own way and didn't have to claim any benefits, it was quite eye opening and meal times were like a military operation as were the holidays they went on which he paid for every penny himself no sponging anywhere. So fair play to them for funding their own lives and also at the time of filming the dad was working extra to pay for 2 of the kids to go to uni so they didn't have to get student loans.

I myself am a father of 6 beautiful kids aged between 6 & 19, its not bloody cheap, but again don't claim any benefits and everything we do comes out of our own pockets, means sometimes I've had to go without but surely that's how it should be as a parent. I'd like to think as they grow up they will learn from those examples. My oldest herself at 19 didn't go straight to uni, instead got a job working in Wilkos and is now using the money she earned in her first year to pay her own way through college. Even now she works 4 days a week now as a supervisor on better money and the other 3 days attends her college course.

I should add if someone offered me money to have a kid I'd say no, as financial gain imo isn't a reason to have a child, it should be out of desire to love and nuture a child and have fun creating memories together not to improve the bank balance.
 
Wolf said:
With regards to the original article in the OP I guess if there is a significant issue of under population in places like Finland and they need to increase that to help future industry of the country having enough of its own people to work then that's fair enough and their own issue to address.

With regards to the 2nd article about the Radfords, there was a documentary on a year or 2 ago following them and their daily lives. If memory serves the father is a Baker by trade and has his own business, works all hours and showed that every penny his businesses made went back into the family & increasing his own revenues to ensure they paid their own way and didn't have to claim any benefits, it was quite eye opening and meal times were like a military operation as were the holidays they went on which he paid for every penny himself no sponging anywhere. So fair play to them for funding their own lives and also at the time of filming the dad was working extra to pay for 2 of the kids to go to uni so they didn't have to get student loans.

I myself am a father of 6 beautiful kids aged between 6 & 19, its not bloody cheap, but again don't claim any benefits and everything we do comes out of our own pockets, means sometimes I've had to go without but surely that's how it should be as a parent. I'd like to think as they grow up they will learn from those examples. My oldest herself at 19 didn't go straight to uni, instead got a job working in Wilkos and is now using the money she earned in her first year to pay her own way through college. Even now she works 4 days a week now as a supervisor on better money and the other 3 days attends her college course.

I should add if someone offered me money to have a kid I'd say no, as financial gain imo isn't a reason to have a child, it should be out of desire to love and nuture a child and have fun creating memories together not to improve the bank balance.
Click to expand...
I like your loyalty to your family however the planet is overpopulated and this is the underlying cause of most of its problems including climate change and stripping natural resorces.
 
SocketRocket said:
I like your loyalty to your family however the planet is overpopulated and this is the underlying cause of most of its problems including climate change and stripping natural resorces.
Click to expand...
Interesting point yet you fail to point out the number of deaths each year is decreasing in England and Wales alone by an average of 2.5% on previous year's and the number of births in that same time period has decreased by 3.2% the fact those numbers are so tightly linked suggests that stating that births is the issue alone seems a little closed minded. Especially as in the last 3 years the rate of births has decreased every year with the % of reduction getting bigger each year yet in the same time people live longer.

Rather than stating over population is down to births perhaps its time to start thinking about the fact over population isn't just down to that but the average person is living a lot longer as well meaning an increasing number of elderly population adding to the issue of over population. Again UK statistics only the average age for death in 1920s was for a man 55years old and 59 for a woman. As of 2018 those numbers sit at 79.2years for men and 82.9years for women.. So in 100 years in our nation alone the lifespan of a person has increased by over 24 years per person in average. Now if you then equate in a similar vein the world over thanks to human development & medical improvements that's a lot of people living a lot longer.

So stating in a post about births especially to a person that does have loyalty to his large family, that this is the underlying of overpopulation and the issues we face with climate change etc seems to me be a little short sighted when there are so many other factors as to why there are so many people still on the planet.. Or do you suggest we all stop having children because all the while people are living longer there will be no balance.
 
Wolf said:
Interesting point yet you fail to point out the number of deaths each year is decreasing in England and Wales alone by an average of 2.5% on previous year's and the number of births in that same time period has decreased by 3.2% the fact those numbers are so tightly linked suggests that stating that births is the issue alone seems a little closed minded. Especially as in the last 3 years the rate of births has decreased every year with the % of reduction getting bigger each year yet in the same time people live longer.

Rather than stating over population is down to births perhaps its time to start thinking about the fact over population isn't just down to that but the average person is living a lot longer as well meaning an increasing number of elderly population adding to the issue of over population. Again UK statistics only the average age for death in 1920s was for a man 55years old and 59 for a woman. As of 2018 those numbers sit at 79.2years for men and 82.9years for women.. So in 100 years in our nation alone the lifespan of a person has increased by over 24 years per person in average. Now if you then equate in a similar vein the world over thanks to human development & medical improvements that's a lot of people living a lot longer.

So stating in a post about births especially to a person that does have loyalty to his large family, that this is the underlying of overpopulation and the issues we face with climate change etc seems to me be a little short sighted when there are so many other factors as to why there are so many people still on the planet.. Or do you suggest we all stop having children because all the while people are living longer there will be no balance.
Click to expand...

Most countries incl the UK grapple with an ageing population. They need to be taken care of and there is a need to get new blood + a young working class to support them. As my (retired) neigbour reminds me everytime.. 'How is work? Also pl dont stop working as you are paying for my pension...'
 
Wolf said:
Interesting point yet you fail to point out the number of deaths each year is decreasing in England and Wales alone by an average of 2.5% on previous year's and the number of births in that same time period has decreased by 3.2% the fact those numbers are so tightly linked suggests that stating that births is the issue alone seems a little closed minded. Especially as in the last 3 years the rate of births has decreased every year with the % of reduction getting bigger each year yet in the same time people live longer.

Rather than stating over population is down to births perhaps its time to start thinking about the fact over population isn't just down to that but the average person is living a lot longer as well meaning an increasing number of elderly population adding to the issue of over population. Again UK statistics only the average age for death in 1920s was for a man 55years old and 59 for a woman. As of 2018 those numbers sit at 79.2years for men and 82.9years for women.. So in 100 years in our nation alone the lifespan of a person has increased by over 24 years per person in average. Now if you then equate in a similar vein the world over thanks to human development & medical improvements that's a lot of people living a lot longer.

So stating in a post about births especially to a person that does have loyalty to his large family, that this is the underlying of overpopulation and the issues we face with climate change etc seems to me be a little short sighted when there are so many other factors as to why there are so many people still on the planet.. Or do you suggest we all stop having children because all the while people are living longer there will be no balance.
Click to expand...
I disagree. UK population growth is driven by the birth rates of immigrants who tend to have more children. If we had no immigration the population would fall rather than increasing by the rate of around six cities the size of Bristol over the next decade. Also, I can not find any data to support your suggestion that death rates annually are decreasing by the rates you suggest, in 2016 they actually increased.

The arguement that we need to increase population to support previous generations is a paradox, these additional people will grow old and need supporting thus needing an exponential number of immigrants and births to support them, this is a plan for disaster as support services cannot keep pace, also more people use up more scarce resorces and thus will create an overloaded society where living standards will have to fall considerably.
People do and in many cases can work and be healthier longer, we have to find better solutions to the aging population than pumping up immigration and/or birthrates to support them
 
Last edited:
SocketRocket said:
I disagree. UK population growth is driven by the birth rates of immigrants who tend to have more children. If we had no immigration the population would fall rather than increasing by the rate of around six cities the size of Bristol over the next decade. Also, I can not find any data to support your suggestion that death rates annually are decreasing by the rates you suggest, in 2016 they actually increased.

The arguement that we need to increase population to support previous generations is a paradox, these additional people will grow old and need supporting thus needing an exponential number of immigrants and births to support them, this is a plan for disaster as support services cannot keep pace, also more people use up more scarce resorces and thus will create an overloaded society where living standards will have to fall considerably.
People do and in many cases can work and be healthier longer, we have to find better solutions to the aging population than pumping up immigration and/or birthrates to support them
Click to expand...

there are some generalisations In the first half of the post.. acc to Stats

in the UK as a whole, the percentage of live births to non-UK-born mothers fell to 27.0% (provisional) in 2018, compared with 27.1% in 2017.

Now this could be an anomaly or not very statistically significant event this year. Also the death rate has increased - though I am not sure why they tried to correlate that we kids born to UK mothers.

source: https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...ins/parentscountryofbirthenglandandwales/2018
 
Mudball said:
there are some generalisations In the first half of the post.. acc to Stats

in the UK as a whole, the percentage of live births to non-UK-born mothers fell to 27.0% (provisional) in 2018, compared with 27.1% in 2017.

Now this could be an anomaly or not very statistically significant event this year. Also the death rate has increased - though I am not sure why they tried to correlate that we kids born to UK mothers.

source: https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...ins/parentscountryofbirthenglandandwales/2018
Click to expand...
You're not listening, everything is the fault of immigrants.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top