Full differance or three quarters?

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Gasp

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In january we start using full difference between handicaps in matchplay events and I just wanted to know what the general feeling about this was. My own view is that handicaps are formulated on a stroke play basis, i.e. if you take a 10 on a hole then 10 is added to your score. In matchplay it doesn't matter if you score 5 or 25, if your opponent makes a 4 then you've lost the hole, therefore eliminating this big score. Having the difference reduced by 3/4 goes some way to eliminating this discrepancy.

My moaning about this may be because I play off 4 and will have to give more shots in the future, but I believe that this new rule discourages players striving to reduce their handicap, and opens the way for the dreaded protectors.
 

USER1999

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I am with you on this one. 3/4 is about right, where as full allowance will be a joke, and defo favour the higher handicap.

Mate of mine played a mixed in Germany a few years back, he was off 3, lady opponent of 48 (yes, they go that high in Europe). She got 45 shots, full allowance, and stood 30 yards in front on the ladies tee. This is daft.
 

clubchamp07

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We have been using the 3/4 rule for a good number of years now. We may not like it but it's a rule and we just have to get on with it! I am a low handicaper and I have played a lot of matchplay events and had to give loads of shot, it makes the lower handicaper play alot better I think.
 
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My own view is that handicaps are formulated on a stroke play basis, i.e. if you take a 10 on a hole then 10 is added to your score.
Yes, but for handicap purposes you'll be treated as scoring a net double bogey at most. So your handicap will be lower than it really should be. Maybe part of the reason you get full handicap in matchplay.
 

Hoppy

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I am a high handicap golfer, I don't really mind if I play Full, 7/8 or 3/4. The only thing I ask is we are handicapped anyway why handicap the handicap? What other sport does this? none that I can think of.

A low handicapper will always have the advantage,
1. He or she loses less shots.
2. They are more consistant because they are better golfers so play less bad shots.

Yes a high handicapper can have a very good day and yes there are Bandits out there, so they are going to win some tournaments, but how do you then reduce thier handicap when they won it playing off 3/4 of thier proper handicap.

At my club most of the comps are won by low to mid handicapers they are generally more consistant, but spare a thought for us high handicapers it is a big boost to our moral if we finish in the top 3 and get a handicap cut thats what we all strive for isn't it?
 

chipin1

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I'm going to have to agree with John on this one.

With 3/4 handicap allowance you are presuming that all high handicappers are capable of making quite a few pars while also likely to throw in the odd triple bogey. This is a presumption I don't think you can make. In my experience there are just as many high handicappers that go along making bogeys and double bogeys on every hole.

As John says, only being able to make a net double bogey at most suggests that handicaps might be a touch lower than they should be anyway. So it all even's itself out again.

IMHO, 3/4 allowance is a way for low handicappers to gain an unfair advantage. Oh, and by the way, I'm off 5 so I'm not approaching this one with sour grapes.

Also, don't CONGU stipulate that all matchplay should be full handicap allowance or am I just dreaming this?
 

JezzE

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GM equipment editor here...

I did a piece on this in I think our April issue last year after taking a close look at the CONGU website - the organisation that controls the handicap scheme.

Like you I was a little wary of full difference as I felt it would favour the higher handicapper, but they actually have lots of stats and case studies on there that suggest otherwise. It's worth taking a look at CONGU's recommendations...

http://www.congu.com/template1.asp?pid=26

...and also at a thread addressing this very issue...

http://www.congu.com/template1.asp?pid=174

So their recommendation is only for full handicap diff in singles, and for 3/4 to remain in betterball, so if your club is trying to elbow through a universal full difference policy, regardless of whether it's singles or betterball, you have every right to feel a little aggrieved.
 

madandra

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This is a sore topic at my club due to the fact there are a few sharks on the committee who win these things more often than not. They only play 4 or 5 medals a year to keep their cap but fanny about so as not to get cut.

I think that 18 should be the MAXIMUM anybody gets in a tie. My mate had to give a guy 2 strokes at the 1st at our club and the bam knocked his drive onto the green on a par 4. He walked off with a nett ACE. Over the six matches it took him to win the title he gave away 91 shots. I guess you could say he never gave away enough because he won but I would put a maximum of 18 shots for any matchplay event.
 
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3/4 for me

i played off 14 last season and knocked out 2 of the favorites for our singles.

i would fancy myself to beat most people on a hole with a shot. 7 shots (for examples) therefore gives me a massive chance. lets not forget the low guys will have a couple of poor holes too. i only need to get a few pars and keep the doubles or higher to a minimum to win.

In my society i was of 8, and got spanked by a 26 handicapper with 3/4 difference. i would have needed to shoot a gross 34 on the back 9 to keep up with him. Imagine if he had the full difference!
 
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i will be joining my first club this coming year and i thought the whole point of the handy cap was to put all players on a level playing field.

I also thought that if you played better than your handy cap you would be chopped down and it takes a lot to get it back up.

This i would be happy about as i think all should be handy capped to there potential, this to my mind brings the players who may be lets say bending the rules a tad into line, they might win a comp by bettering there handy cap but then it gets chopped so to win they need to play better next time.

this may be a daft way of thinking on my part but that is what i think about the system.
 

rgs

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This is a annual debate in all golfing circles-I personally think 3/4 should be the way to go.

On Madandra point about a max of 18--i agree, in our society we have implemented this rule for the past two years and it has been a success. The high handicappers have accepted and embraced the rule and the single figure members are happier to enter the matchplay competition-The winner for the past two seasons was the lowest handicapped player.
 
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Gasp

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Yes, but for handicap purposes you'll be treated as scoring a net double bogey at most. So your handicap will be lower than it really should be. Maybe part of the reason you get full handicap in matchplay.

[/QUOTE]


This is a great point John.
 
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rgs

...mmmm I wonder for whom this is regarded as a success? Personally I'd be amazed if the lowest handicapper hadn't won given that he's quite possibly come up against a series of 20+ handicappers forced to play off 18. Sounds like a no-brainer for the lower-handicappers to me?
 

USER1999

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A further point on this is 'where do you get the shots?'.

Now if I get one shot in a match, I get it on stroke index 1. This is daft. If one player is off 4, and the other 5, then both are expected to bogie index 1 to 4, but the higher of the two is expected to bogey index 5. If he got his shot on index 5, then this would make more sense, as this is where the difference lies.

Complicated?

Re: a lot of the above posts, you can't get cut in matchplay, and 3/4 the difference is only used in matchplay. It has worked for decades, why change it. The player who plays best on the day normally wins it anyway.
 

Hoppy

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Re: a lot of the above posts, you can't get cut in matchplay, and 3/4 the difference is only used in matchplay. It has worked for decades, why change it. The player who plays best on the day normally wins it anyway.
The reason I put about handicapping at 3/4 is because our club doesn't only use it at matchplay they try to use it whenever they can. I have played a stapleford comp off 3/4. Infact I played a comp on Monday that was 7/8. I also play in a league where the maximum handicap is 18. I have no problem with that.
 
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Gasp

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It's very rare that the stroke indexes on a course correspond exactlywith the actual difficulty of the holes. The way the holes are indexed varies from course to course. Most courses like to have odds on one nine and evens on the other. Also they don't like to group too many shots together i.e. S.I. 1, 3, 5 on consecutive holes. This works quite well for matchplay I suppose, but what about stableford where it doesn't matter whether the strokes come in sequence, surely then the strokes should be on the harder holes. So should there be two different set of S.I.'s?
 

chipin1

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I'm smelling the stench of another argument here - that of how stroke indexes are assigned.

I think they should loosely relate to the difficulty of holes while also ensuring that stroke index 1 doesn't come at the end of the round etc.
 

clubchamp07

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did I miss something, In stroke play we all get our full handicap! (Right)? In matchplay we only get 3/4's. unless we're missing something it only effects Matchplay competition's.
 
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