Frost = Temporary Greens?

Swingalot

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So question, does playing on frosted greens with damage the grass or does it depend on the level of frost and/or the type of grass/course sub-layer?

Played today with 120 golfers on a big meet and it was ruined by the decision to play on temp greens. The ground was frosty when we started, but within 30 minutes all the greens were thawed out as the sun was out and we played a full round looking at and walking around some fabulous looking greens BUT not actually playing on them!!!

When I started playing 20 years ago my club used to play off temps in the frost, but then I believe greenkeepers started to think this was not needed and we switched to full greens and never had an issue. Every club I have played at since when the frost has been out have taken the same stance, so was this club just being a bit behind the times or did they have a point?
 

Canary_Yellow

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I gather the risk is damaging the grass as the ground thaws, rather than when it is frozen.

However, it seems to be a head greenkeeper by head greenkeeper thing. Some either take the view that it doesn't impact the grass, or otherwise think that any impact is minimal so better to have people out enjoying the course in frosty conditions than have alreay very good greens an imperceptible amount better in the summer months for having them closed in winter.

There's a place near me that closes completely until frost clears. They never put temp tees or greens in play though and it's a great place to play in winter (unless frosty, of course!)
 
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Guess it will depend on the greenkeeper - we stay on our greens when it’s frosty and only coming off if there has been at least 4 days consecutive hard frost - hasn’t done any damage to our greens playing on frost
 

jim8flog

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We only got to temp greens for frost when it is really severe and penetrating. We never go to temps on our 9 hole course, there are none.
 

spongebob59

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At my previous club the greenkeepers used to put the flags at the front when they thought there was a chance of green damage, seemed sensible to me.
 

Swingalot

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What actual damage does playing on the frosted greens actually do, what does this damage look like??? Also, where is the logic with the tees which are tightly cut and they get more footfall than the greens, but they stay open and in play with frost???

More I think about it, more I think it is certain green keepers either not keeping up with modern thinking or just being choppers!
 

upsidedown

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As have been said above it comes down to how the HG manages his greens and what pressures he's under for the rest of the year, the biggest footfall for all courses will be in the warmer months so you can see why it can be prudent to protect the greens in the colder months , all be it frustrating at times.

Enville I believe are trialling staying on main greens this winter on the Lodge and will be interested to see how they perform later in the year.
Found this article a while ago which goes someway to explaining frost damage
http://www.kmgcgolfconsultant.com/2009/01/should-you-play-golf-in-the-frost.html
 

fundy

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yeah someone mentioned that today. Does not make much sense to me, unless people are saying the slightly soft/wet thawing of the grass is the issue? If so, heaven help us if it rains much in this country............

argument i think is if it is deeply frozen then starts to defrost, the top becomes thawed whilst below is still frozen. this can lead to the roots tearing where frozen meets non frozen in effect

personally never seen enough frost damage to warrant not playing on them (maybe because im a fair weather golfer tho!)
 

User101

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I haven't played on full greens since mid November and I've played every Saturday bar two when it's been closed.
 

backwoodsman

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argument i think is if it is deeply frozen then starts to defrost, the top becomes thawed whilst below is still frozen. this can lead to the roots tearing where frozen meets non frozen in effect

personally never seen enough frost damage to warrant not playing on them (maybe because im a fair weather golfer tho!)

/\ /\ /\

This. Thawing surface, and frozen below, causes root tear - according to our head GK.
 

HomerJSimpson

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We are trialling staying on greens throughout the winter including frosts so interesting to see what the consensus is in the spring and whether any damage occurs. I have to say the greens are putting well this winter so as far as I am concerned so far so good at the moment
 

FuzzyDuck

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Played 9 this morning, starting just after 10. First few holes were set up for frost with the hole located just in front of the green. On the short par 3 I hit my shot to the back of the green, which was awkward with the hole 30 feet away, just before a drop down to a stream. Luckily as I was walking down to the green, the the course manager shot by in a buggie and switched the hole back to normal, in the middle of the green. Made for a much easier finish.
 

Parky24

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I despise temporary greens with a passion . Luckily my new club in Surrey never goes onto them unlike my previous club.
 

TreeSeeker

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I despise temporary greens with a passion . Luckily my new club in Surrey never goes onto them unlike my previous club.

I haven't much of an issue with them, I just consider it to be a gimme if its within 6ft, 2 shots if its within the closer cutt and just move on to the next :) if conditions are bad enough for alot of temp greens, I won't be there anyway!
 

Andy

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I don't know the reason for it but I fully trust the decision of my greenkeepers. Course and particularly the greens are great in winter considering the rain we get, then come summer our greens are brilliant.

The guys provide me with a great course all year round and in 6 years membership I've played on temps twice so no big deal.
 

Jamesbrown

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Any whiff of a temp green and I’m not playing. Even if it’s one. We don’t have them unless it’s needed on our sand based course.
But I understand they need to be there if it’s bad.
 

Green Bay Hacker

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Played at Eaton GC yesterday and the whole course was frozen solid until about 1pm. All the main greens were in play despite it being a lottery. The thing that struck me was that it was impossible to repair pitch marks on the green but even more surprising was that there were any pitch marks at all as it was that hard.
 
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