Free Relief or Not

[fowlero]

During a strokeplay medal round, one of our players came accross an interesting releif situation. His ball ended up against the wooden frame (support inside the narrow burn to stop the ground around it collapsing) that defines the water hazard which is a burn running between our 17th & 18th Holes.
Unfortunately there are no red lines at that part to designate where the hazard starts etc, he felt he was entitled to free relief as did one of his playing partners, another playing partner wasn't convinced.

What would be the ruling here? Would it be free relief, or ball unplayable drop under penalty of one stroke?

Any help would be appreciated

 

[Foxholer]

No Free Relief if ball is in (or touching) hazard.

See Note 1 of Rule 24 (b) here http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Rule-24/

As the boundary of an unmarked Water Hazard is where the the ground changes, I believe, from your description, that IO is in the hazard.

 

[guest100718]

I guees it depends on wether the frame in in the hazard or marks the boundary of it?

 

[pbrown7582]

Would the frame it is deemed outside the hazard then not become an immovable?

 

[Fyldewhite]

I guees it depends on wether the frame in in the hazard or marks the boundary of it?

I think even if the wooden bit defines the boundary, as the ball was touching that it is IN the hazard. Sounds like a penalty for me from the OP.

 

[Foxholer]

I guees it depends on wether the frame in in the hazard or marks the boundary of it?

If frame marks the boundary, then ball is in the hazard.

...
When the margin of a water hazard is defined by stakes, the stakes are inside the water hazard, and the margin of the hazard is defined by the nearest outside points of the stakes at ground level. When both stakes and lines are used to indicate a water hazard, the stakes identify the hazard and the lines define the hazard margin. When the margin of a water hazard is defined by a line on the ground, the line itself is in the water hazard. The margin of a water hazard extends vertically upwards and downwards.

A ball is in a water hazard when it lies in or any part of it touches the water hazard.

Only time when it would not be is if red lines were painted on the inside of the frame only - so that the ball touching the outside of the frame was not touching the boundary.

 

[Twire]

Thread tidied, please try and be civil gentlemen.

 

[fowlero]

Hi guys thanks for the replies, the wooden frame is in the hazard as it supports the banks on either side from collapsing.
Now if the wooden frame defines the water hazard and the ball touching it would therefore deem it to be in the hazard as my initital interpretation.
what would happen if there was a slight gap between the ball and the frame, and the frame therefore only impedes the intended swing, would it still be a case of declaring the ball unplayable as the wooden frame forms part of the hazard, or would the player be entitled to free relief as their ball is not in a hazard?

 

[Foxholer]

Hi guys thanks for the replies, the wooden frame is in the hazard as it supports the banks on either side from collapsing.
Now if the wooden frame defines the water hazard and the ball touching it would therefore deem it to be in the hazard as my initital interpretation.
what would happen if there was a slight gap between the ball and the frame, and the frame therefore only impedes the intended swing, would it still be a case of declaring the ball unplayable as the wooden frame forms part of the hazard, or would the player be entitled to free relief as their ball is not in a hazard?

It's where the ball is that's important, not where the IO is.

If the frame defines the boundary of the hazard and there's a gap, then the ball isn't in the WH. That being the case, Free Relief IS available as per Rule 24-2 (b). same link as above (but I've specified the correct part of the rule this time!).

 

[fowlero]

I see in the rule 24-2 above it states if the ball lies "through the green" then there is free relief from an immovable obstruction, does this mean fairway, or grass cut to fairway length? is it a different situation if the ball lies in the rough?

 

[Foxholer]

I see in the rule 24-2 above it states if the ball lies "through the green" then there is free relief from an immovable obstruction, does this mean fairway, or grass cut to fairway length? is it a different situation if the ball lies in the rough?

Here's the definition.

“Through the green’’ is the whole area of the course except:

a. The teeing ground and putting green of the hole being played; and

b. All hazards on the course.

So Fairways, Rough, Green Fringes, Roads and Paths.

There are no concepts of 'rough' and 'fairway' in The Rules except by implication. 'Closely Mown' is specified as 'fairway length or less', so would include green fringes. Everything else not specifically defined (what's left) is, therefore, rough.

 

[atticusfinch]

Some fringe grass is longer than fairway grass.

 

[Colin L]

Would the frame it is deemed outside the hazard then not become an immovable?

The frame is an obstruction whether it is in or out of the hazard.

 

[atticusfinch]

Not mentioned yet is whether the committee had designated the frame an integral part of the course, in which case it would not be an obstruction and there would be no relief regardless of the ball's location.

 

[backwoodsman]

Not mentioned yet is whether the committee had designated the frame an integral part of the course, in which case it would not be an obstruction and there would be no relief regardless of the ball's location.

As an aside;

You're playing an unfamiliar course. Where would one expect to find the info which says "X" is an integral part of the course and therefore not an IO? On the card perhaps? Or elsewhere. If not on the card would it be safe (ish) to assume it is not "integral"?

 

[Foxholer]

As an aside;

You're playing an unfamiliar course. Where would one expect to find the info which says "X" is an integral part of the course and therefore not an IO? On the card perhaps? Or elsewhere. If not on the card would it be safe (ish) to assume it is not "integral"?

Card is the obvious place. But there's normally a Noticeboard that's worth checking too.