Free Drop?

[Lump]

Got a good one from today. I suspect the drop was utter BS, but it was worthless calling him on it as I couldn't back up with a rule.

He'd driven the ball to behind a tree (only 2inch from base) leaving no swing for a right hander... IF he swung left handed he claimed that he should get relief from a dubious animal scrape/droppings that was on his swing path (it was a good 2ft infront of his ball and no way his swing or shot would have touched or been interfered by said dubious scrape) because it was on the line of his swing.

He took relief after getting confirmation of the free drop from his PP (his dad).

I believe he took relief where he shouldn't, am I right?

Basic drawing but you get the idea

 

[DCB]

You've been had 😉

 

[Old Skier]

And by not saying anything he'll try it on again.

 

[guest100718]

A right hander can setup for a left handed shot and take relief if there is resaon to do so. Altough in this case it sounds like he was talking BS

 

[ruff-driver]

 

[hovis]

i had a pretty much identical situation. you can get relief from playing left handed but playing the shot left handed has to be the only option. even though he had a two inch backswing he still had one!.

the example of rory tends to arise in this situation when he got relief. in this situation his ball come to rest against the wooden sleeper going into the lake. it was impossible for rory to take a stance to play his shot and used the situation to get relief from a fairway sprinkler. he got relief and then took his shot right handed

 

[mikejohnchapman]

If the ball was not in or touching the damage as you indicate or he didn't have to stand in / on it to take a fair stance there is no basis for relief whether right or left handed. You also have to be able to clearly show it's damage made by a burrowing animal.

Remember Seve trying to get relief and John Paramor refusing.

 

[chrisd]

The key, as far as I can see, was that the scrape didn't interfere with his left hand swing or stance and he had no right hand swing - so no free Drop! I do agree with Hovis that any swing left handed would be enough if it were a proper one

 

[pogle]

i had a pretty much identical situation. you can get relief from playing left handed but playing the shot left handed has to be the only option. even though he had a two inch backswing he still had one!.

the example of rory tends to arise in this situation when he got relief. in this situation his ball come to rest against the wooden sleeper going into the lake. it was impossible for rory to take a stance to play his shot and used the situation to get relief from a fairway sprinkler. he got relief and then took his shot right handed

I may be misunderstanding what you're saying here. If a left handed swing (for a right handed player) is reasonable in the circumstances then relief would be available - it does not have to be the player's only option and having a two inch backswing for a right handed swing would not make a left handed swing clearly unreasonable.

Apologies if I've misunderstood what you've written.

 

[Region3]

A 'scrape' and I'd say no. If it were a cast piled up so it interfered with the club path then yes.

 

[HDID Kenny]

Sketch looked like a mole hill in which case it could interfere with swing (follow through)

 

[Lump]

100% not a mole hill. A small area of abnormal ground at a push.

Here is the kicker. Said member is a very low handicapper and multiple time scratch and nett club champion. He is also not allowed to play for the club in inter club matches due to "previous" incidents.

 

[atticusfinch]

The rule you want is 25-1...especially the Exception. It is a good idea to study it and the decisions...it can be complicated.

 

[user2010]

100% not a mole hill. A small area of abnormal ground at a push.

Here is the kicker. Said member is a very low handicapper and multiple time scratch and nett club champion. He is also not allowed to play for the club in inter club matches due to "previous" incidents.

So he`s a known cheat then!

 

[woody69]

Got a good one from today. I suspect the drop was utter BS, but it was worthless calling him on it as I couldn't back up with a rule.

He'd driven the ball to behind a tree (only 2inch from base) leaving no swing for a right hander... IF he swung left handed he claimed that he should get relief from a dubious animal scrape/droppings that was on his swing path (it was a good 2ft infront of his ball and no way his swing or shot would have touched or been interfered by said dubious scrape) because it was on the line of his swing.

He took relief after getting confirmation of the free drop from his PP (his dad).

I believe he took relief where he shouldn't, am I right?

Basic drawing but you get the idea
View attachment 21577

It's a fairly clear rule. 25-1

Interference by an abnormal ground condition occurs when a ball lies in or touches the condition or when the condition interferes with the player’s stance or the area of his intended swing. If the player’s ball lies on the putting green , interference also occurs if an abnormal ground condition on the putting green intervenes on his line of putt. Otherwise, intervention on the line of play is not, of itself, interference under this Rule.

From your drawing, even if he plays the shot left handed (which appears to be reasonable based on the lack of shot available to a r/handed player), the scrape doesn't interfere with his area of intended swing, so he shouldn't get relief.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

Definitely no relief, the left hand shot was reasonable, but the scrape didn't interfere.

However, even if the scrape was interfering, I'm pretty sure relief wouldn't be allowed as the tree trunk would make the stroke impractical.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

100% not a mole hill. A small area of abnormal ground at a push.

Here is the kicker. Said member is a very low handicapper and multiple time scratch and nett club champion. He is also not allowed to play for the club in inter club matches due to "previous" incidents.

So why not pull him up. Even with "previous" if he thinks he can get away it in competitions he will. The OP doesn't say if it was a comp today or not but pulling him up, and then getting others to do the same, "may" put an element of doubt in his mind for the next time. If the club won't let him play matches, how come he is still playing comps?

 

[chrisd]

So why not pull him up. Even with "previous" if he thinks he can get away it in competitions he will. The OP doesn't say if it was a comp today or not but pulling him up, and then getting others to do the same, "may" put an element of doubt in his mind for the next time. If the club won't let him play matches, how come he is still playing comps?

I totally agree, if I played with anyone who has been known to have previous I'd watch them VERY carefully and would ask him to explain carefully any decision he was looking for, and suggest that he plays 2 balls for checking afterwards if I was doubtful myself as to a rule

 

[atticusfinch]

suggest that he plays 2 balls for checking afterwards if I was doubtful myself as to a rule

I thought your comps were matchplay?

 

[rulefan]

I thought your comps were matchplay?

Why do you say that? I can't see anything in this thread that indicates match or stroke play