Found embedded ball by treading on it - any penalties??

[delc]

At our par three 6th hole I hit my tee shot into the semi-rough just to the right of the green. We didn't expect to have any trouble finding it, but when we walked up there it was nowhere to be seen. After a few minutes of searching I found it by treading on it. It had embedded itself right into the rather soft ground! We have the Local Winter Rule that allows relief from from an embedded ball through the green. As I was entitled to a free drop anyway, should I have been penalised for treading on it? Only a friendly game by the way, but what would be the case in a formal competition?

 

[KenL]

Standing on your own ball is a penalty.

This must be pretty high up the list of the stupid rules of golf. Being penalised for standing on a ball that nobody can see if crazy.

i remember Tiger (at least I think it was TW) allowing the crowd to look for his ball as he was aware that he would be penalised if he had stood on it.

 

[rulie]

Standing on your own ball is a penalty.

This must be pretty high up the list of the stupid rules of golf. Being penalised for standing on a ball that nobody can see if crazy.

i remember Tiger (at least I think it was TW) allowing the crowd to look for his ball as he was aware that he would be penalised if he had stood on it.

It is a breach of the Rules (Rule 18-2a) if you cause your ball in play to move, including downwards. However, standing on it will, in all likelihood, cause it to move!

 

[delc]

It is a breach of the Rules (Rule 18-2a) if you cause your ball in play to move, including downwards. However, standing on it will, in all likelihood, cause it to move!

Yes I know this is a penalty under normal circumstances, but wondered if this is still the case when Winter rules are in force? At worst I caused an embedded ball to become more embedded, and I was entitled to a free drop from such a lie.

 

[rulie]

Yes I know this is a penalty under normal circumstances, but wondered if this is still the case when Winter rules are in force? At worst I caused an embedded ball to become more embedded, and I was entitled to a free drop from such a lie.

Did you cause your ball in play to move other than as provided in the Rules? Rule 18-2a still applies even if "winter Rules" are in effect. If you caused your ball to move other than in the specific act of marking or lifting it under the local Rule (winter Rules) or the embedded ball Rule, it is a breach of Rule 18-2a. Stepping on it would not be "directly attributable" as noted in Rule 20-1, and would be a breach of Rule 18-2a resulting in a one stroke penalty.

 

[Colin L]

Yes I know this is a penalty under normal circumstances, but wondered if this is still the case when Winter rules are in force? At worst I caused an embedded ball to become more embedded, and I was entitled to a free drop from such a lie.

Man up, Del, and take the penalty on the chin. “Rulie” is not going to give you any wriggle room. Nor does Decision 18/1.

Nice try , though.

 

[rulefan]

But does he replace the ball or drop it?

 

[Fyldewhite]

But does he replace the ball or drop it?

Good question! The way I read the OP is that it's only embedded because the player stood on it. If this is the case then it wouldn't be covered by the embedded ball local rule because it' isn't in it's own pitchmark. Therefore the only applicable rule is the ball being moved by the player and that says it must be replaced. As the lie has been altered (by standing on it), it should be placed in the nearest most similar lie within one clublength.

 

[delc]

Good question! The way I read the OP is that it's only embedded because the player stood on it. If this is the case then it wouldn't be covered by the embedded ball local rule because it' isn't in it's own pitchmark. Therefore the only applicable rule is the ball being moved by the player and that says it must be replaced. As the lie has been altered (by standing on it), it should be placed in the nearest most similar lie within one clublength.

I think I already explained that it was embedded in its own pitch mark, to the extent that it was almost underground, which is why we couldn't initially find it in an area of only short semi-rough. I only found it because I felt it under my foot while searching. Our Winter Rules allow lift clean and place within 6" NNTH on closely mown areas, and lift clean and drop as near as possible NNTH for embedded balls through the green.

 

[Fyldewhite]

I think I already explained that it was embedded in its own pitch mark, to the extent that it was almost underground, which is why we couldn't initially find it in an area of only short semi-rough. I only found it because I felt it under my foot while searching. Our Winter Rules allow lift clean and place within 6" NNTH on closely mown areas, and lift clean and drop as near as possible NNTH for embedded balls through the green.

Ah, fair enough. I read the OP differently. In that case I'd say you just drop under the local rule.

 

[woody69]

At our par three 6th hole I hit my tee shot into the semi-rough just to the right of the green. We didn't expect to have any trouble finding it, but when we walked up there it was nowhere to be seen. After a few minutes of searching I found it by treading on it. It had embedded itself right into the rather soft ground! We have the Local Winter Rule that allows relief from from an embedded ball through the green. As I was entitled to a free drop anyway, should I have been penalised for treading on it? Only a friendly game by the way, but what would be the case in a formal competition?

Yes. You caused it to move.

 

[bobmac]

What would happen if Dels' ball was imbedded in an area marked as GUR?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

What would happen if Dels' ball was imbedded in an area marked as GUR?

If it is GUR with compulsory drop then I'd have thought (without checking rules of course) that his ball would be out of play whilst in the GUR and hence no penalty incurred. However this would be a case for it being KoVC that his ball was in the GUR before being stood on.

 

[rosecott]

This happened to me yesterday. I was sharing a buggy with a FC who was driving it. He drove the buggy into the rough to look for my ball. When he stopped I looked back and saw my ball plugged in the rough. Although the tyre marks were very close to where the ball lay, we and the other FCs in the group all agreed that the buggy tyre probably did not touch the ball and cause the plugging. With no "ball plugged through the green" LR in force, the agreement was that I would play the ball as it lay without penalty so I duly hacked it out about 100 yards.

 

[delc]

Yes. You caused it to move.

Yes, but if a ball is already in a free relief position, does it matter what happens to it after that?

 

[woody69]

Yes, but if a ball is already in a free relief position, does it matter what happens to it after that?

Why do you keep asking the same question but expect a different answer?

With preferred lies the ball has to be marked before it is moved. If you move the ball that isn't directly related to the the act of marking it then you have to apply a penalty.

 

[rulefan]

Yes, but if a ball is already in a free relief position, does it matter what happens to it after that?

The ball is still in play. So, yes it does matter.

 

[drdel]

So as I read the replies...

1. The ball is buried but still in play, but deep enough to get 'free' relief.
2. Ball is stepped on, so is moved by golfer causing a one shot penalty.
3. Ball must now be 'marked' and replaced but as it was deeply buried it probably had to be moved to identify it but moving it then destroys the original lie so it cannot be placed back as original so must be moved, is this 'free' or a further penalty, as its unplayable?

Hopefully when the first ball headed towards the rough a second Tee shot was taken - perhaps nominated as a provisional.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I think the follow-on question from @delc is centred on whether or not a ball in GUR is 'in play'.

Think a pile of stones with GUR line around it and compulsory drop - you climb onto the stones to get your ball; the stones move (as they would) , and your ball moves. Are you penalised? If not then why would you be penalised for standing on your ball if it was in an area of GUR?

 

[rulie]

I think the follow-on question from @delc is centred on whether or not a ball in GUR is 'in play'.

Think a pile of stones with GUR line around it and compulsory drop - you climb onto the stones to get your ball; the stones move (as they would) , and your ball moves. Are you penalised? If not then why would you be penalised for standing on your ball if it was in an area of GUR?

Yes, the ball is in play when it is in GUR.
Definition of ball in play (in part) -
"A ball is in play as soon as the player has made a stroke on the teeing ground. It remains in play until it is holed, except when it is lost, out of bounds or lifted..."

In your pile of stones situation, you would not be penalized provided it was clear your intentions were not to play your ball, but it's still in play until you lift it.