Fast greens anyone?

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louise_a

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played at Lancaster today, the fastest greens I have played all summer, and lots of tricky slopes too. I lost count of the number of 3 putts I had.

I do prefer greens to be on the fast side but it made me wonder, can greens be too difficult?

Maybe its because I am not a great putter but when you just touch a 10 foot putt and it runs 15 feet past the hole it does seem a tad unfair,
 
I don't mind what speed a green is as long as it's true. If I hit a putt on line at the right pace then I expect it to go it but when you play on greens that bobble all over the place and it pushes the putt offline then I get annoyed.
 
I grew up playing the game on municipal courses with slow greens. Once I joined a club you'd be amazed at how long it took me to adjust.

this summer I've 4 putted the 7th at our place twice. It slopes a lot but it's not even two-tiered.......I'm honoured to be in the same company as Rory:D

Fast greens are almost always truer, but I've lost count of the amount of 6ft downhillers that go 6ft past - does my head in
 
Fast greens don't worry me, you have to play more break then normal, but if your not used to them (uk ave is 9.5) then you'll struggle.
 
I prefer fast greens. I cant stand it when you feel like you have to hit a putt.

Fast greens do highlight any flaws in your putting but overall you will become a better putter playing on faster greens imo.
 
super hans said:
Fast greens are almost always truer,
Click to expand...

They have to be.
The faster the green gets, the truer the roll has to be otherwise you'll never get the ball in the hole.
Personally, I think the faster the green is the flatter it should be. Not totally flat but not with areas with Elephants buried underneath.
I've played on greens that are so fast and so slopey that putting becomes a lottery - in a similar vein to slow, bobbly greens....it becomes hit and hope.
When you can place a ball 18 inches from the hole and the weight of it starts the ball rolling off the green - that's ridiculous.
Subtle breaks on fast greens are more than enough of a challenge. At out standard, having to aim 10 feet one side is just going to lead to 4 putts all day long...and that has to impact on pace of play doesn't it..?
 
Love the greens at Lancaster. My in-laws are members there, so get to play there quite often, and they're so challenging, but it's so rewarding when you get it right and putt well. It's absolutely vital to leave yourself uphill putts, as putting downhill can more often than not result in disaster. Great fun though, love that course.
 
Imurg said:
They have to be.
The faster the green gets, the truer the roll has to be otherwise you'll never get the ball in the hole.
Personally, I think the faster the green is the flatter it should be. Not totally flat but not with areas with Elephants buried underneath.
I've played on greens that are so fast and so slopey that putting becomes a lottery - in a similar vein to slow, bobbly greens....it becomes hit and hope.
When you can place a ball 18 inches from the hole and the weight of it starts the ball rolling off the green - that's ridiculous.
Subtle breaks on fast greens are more than enough of a challenge. At out standard, having to aim 10 feet one side is just going to lead to 4 putts all day long...and that has to impact on pace of play doesn't it..?
Click to expand...

100% agree with this. Greens with a pace appropriate to the slopes is the key to fairness. Once this balance is lost then every putt becomes a tame lag for fear of 3 putting which a) destroys your normal stroke pretty quickly and b) is no fun.
 
What's considered "fast" in stimp terms? I think ours are normally at around the 9.5 mark in good conditions - maybe a little bit more at the height of summer or when they've been prepared for a big competition, but I can't recall them being more than 10.
 
Fyldewhite said:
100% agree with this. Greens with a pace appropriate to the slopes is the key to fairness. Once this balance is lost then every putt becomes a tame lag for fear of 3 putting which a) destroys your normal stroke pretty quickly and b) is no fun.
Click to expand...

all this and you have to add in the pin positions!
 
Canary_Yellow said:
What's considered "fast" in stimp terms? I think ours are normally at around the 9.5 mark in good conditions - maybe a little bit more at the height of summer or when they've been prepared for a big competition, but I can't recall them being more than 10.
Click to expand...

I think that's a fair assessment of yours 9.5 - 10 and very appropriate to the slopes etc they are.

Most golfers make a subjective assessment of 'slow' to greens below 8.5 and quick to anything over 9.5. How they assess anything between will depend on what they are used to.

Anything over 10.5 really is quick but if there are significant slopes you don't need such speed for the greens to play quick.......it only takes a slight slope to turn a 9.5 green into a 28 putt!
 
duncan mackie said:
I think that's a fair assessment of yours 9.5 - 10 and very appropriate to the slopes etc they are.

Most golfers make a subjective assessment of 'slow' to greens below 8.5 and quick to anything over 9.5. How they assess anything between will depend on what they are used to.

Anything over 10.5 really is quick but if there are significant slopes you don't need such speed for the greens to play quick.......it only takes a slight slope to turn a 9.5 green into a 28 putt!
Click to expand...

Any faster than 9.5 on our 9th, 11th, 14th and 16th greens and it would become almost impossible to keep the ball on the green when putting downhill unless you sink it!

I'm not sure if you've played my place recently, but the greens are as good as I've seen them in the 3 years I've been a member; very true and appropriately fast without being ridiculous.

I played at your place a couple of months ago and it was looking good. I've no idea how fast the greens were in stimp terms, but the ball was rolling nicely.
 
Our greens were 10.9 (according to greenkeeper on twitter!) on Saturday and were quicker on Sunday, but have been a fair bit quicker than that at certain points over the summer.

The majority of our greens are more subtle slopes rather than huge slopes so when they are really quick they aren't unplayable, 4 or 5 may be very tricky if you leave a downhill putt but in the main they are good at that speed.

I prefer faster greens, although can putt poorly on any speed!
 
Canary_Yellow said:
Any faster than 9.5 on our 9th, 11th, 14th and 16th greens and it would become almost impossible to keep the ball on the green when putting downhill unless you sink it!

I'm not sure if you've played my place recently, but the greens are as good as I've seen them in the 3 years I've been a member; very true and appropriately fast without being ridiculous.

I played at your place a couple of months ago and it was looking good. I've no idea how fast the greens were in stimp terms, but the ball was rolling nicely.
Click to expand...

your 16th is a good example of how speed and profile have to match. At about 10.5 any ball will roll of the left edge of the rear 50% of the green when played from any position - ie it would simply become wasted green that couldn't be used for pin placement. The available pin positions on the others become minimal too!

Last played in a club match back in May but have played it over the last 30 years.

Depends exactly when you visited! We were using a cut that gave 8.4 but moved it up a little ahead of the significant work done in August. That's all settling in well and the objective remains at just over 9 which is a match for the profiles enabling us to retain a wide range of pin placements on all greens. As you observe, the key subjective measure for most players is 'does the ball roll or do I have to hit it?'
 
NWJocko said:
Our greens were 10.9 (according to greenkeeper on twitter!) on Saturday and were quicker on Sunday, but have been a fair bit quicker than that at certain points over the summer.

The majority of our greens are more subtle slopes rather than huge slopes so when they are really quick they aren't unplayable, 4 or 5 may be very tricky if you leave a downhill putt but in the main they are good at that speed.

I prefer faster greens, although can putt poorly on any speed!
Click to expand...

yours didn't seem too fast on Thursday.
 
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