F1 2021

harpo_72

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Lewis was ahead of Max. There used to be a rule where you had to give you opponent a cars width, but I guess that doesn't apply anymore, at least to Max. Not only did Max not give Hamilton any room, he basically committed himself to ramming him off the track if Lewis did not go off the track himself. Max didn't even give himself room. He was able to perfectly negotiate that corner every lap up to that point. A point that was already made, had they been at Monaco I'm sure he'd have found a way to keep himself on the track. However, on this occasion he drove 10 yards off the track. So, either he intentionally did this, or he is simply an awful driver when it comes to being put under pressure. When under pressure, he can no longer control himself and stay on the track.

Basically, he knew Hamilton was quicker than him and was likely to pass him at some point. If he took them both out of the race, it would be to his advantage. If he took Lewis out of the race only, even better. The only risk would be he took himself out of the race and Lewis managed to keep going, but I guess he perceived that to be a small enough risk. I agree though, excellent driving by Lewis. He knows what Max is all about, and he was not pig headed enough to continue to try and take the corner. Max seems to be a protected species in F1, and I honestly would not be surprised if he causes a huge accident at some point. He, and Red Bull, was happy enough to blame Lewis at Silverstone. However, on that occasion Hamilton got up the inside and the argument against Hamilton was that his turning angle was slightly off from the apex of the corner. However, Max still turned straight in on Hamilton, as if he'd just disappear from being alongside him. Had he any intelligence, he'd have given Hamilton more space. This weekend, Max was no-where near the apex, he didn't even try to turn the corner. Had Hamilton had the same lack of intelligence as Max, he'd have turned in and his car could have been flipped, given he had been so far ahead of Max at the point of him turning.
That’s a bit long a response… sorry you lost me at the first 3 lines
 

Swango1980

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That’s a bit long a response… sorry you lost me at the first 3 lines
I'll summarise, I appreciate some have a short attention span.

Max was either out of order, or crumbles under any sort of pressure from Hamilton. Any accidents are always someone else's fault. He is the most likely driver to potentially cause someone serious harm in the future.
 

Neilds

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Amazes me that some people on this thread think that a driver would deliberately try and cause a crash, especially at the speeds they go in F1. They may go to the edge, but to actually try and endanger someone's life?
 

theoneandonly

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Amazes me that some people on this thread think that a driver would deliberately try and cause a crash, especially at the speeds they go in F1. They may go to the edge, but to actually try and endanger someone's life?
We seen it happen many times over the years. Whether it's all out war like senna v prost or rosberg pretending to lose control at Monaco.
Let's not start on Nelson piquet Jr....
 

Swango1980

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Amazes me that some people on this thread think that a driver would deliberately try and cause a crash, especially at the speeds they go in F1. They may go to the edge, but to actually try and endanger someone's life?
You obviously didn't watch Formula 1 when Michael Schumacher raced then, when Formula One was much more relatively dangerous than it is now. Drivers are constantly taking big risks, whether intentional or not. The speeds they go are crazy, but they're not driving a Vauxhall Corsa at 200 mph, wearing their summer golf gear. It is remarkable how they get to walk away from virtually all crashes with no impact at all, that would leave us in a million pieces if it happened to us on the local roads.
 

Neilds

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You obviously didn't watch Formula 1 when Michael Schumacher raced then, when Formula One was much more relatively dangerous than it is now. Drivers are constantly taking big risks, whether intentional or not. The speeds they go are crazy, but they're not driving a Vauxhall Corsa at 200 mph, wearing their summer golf gear. It is remarkable how they get to walk away from virtually all crashes with no impact at all, that would leave us in a million pieces if it happened to us on the local roads.
I understand all that, but to say that a driver goes out to try and hurt another by forcing a crash , which might also end their own career, is crazy
 

harpo_72

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I understand all that, but to say that a driver goes out to try and hurt another by forcing a crash , which might also end their own career, is crazy
No they don’t, sometimes the heat of the moment takes over, and the onboard footage shows this wasn’t one of those moments.. they are incredibly rare.
I have no affiliation to either driver, but the press like everyone getting all excited as it sells stories.. it’s all about the media coverage and audience numbers.
 

Swango1980

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I understand all that, but to say that a driver goes out to try and hurt another by forcing a crash , which might also end their own career, is crazy
I never said any driver deliberately tries to hurt another driver or themselves. Same as football, a player may often have no intention of hurting another player, but make a rash decision and break their leg. So, I'm saying that I believe Max makes rash decisions, he seems to get away from any form of punishment, and one day it could end up in a nasty incident.
 

theoneandonly

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No they don’t, sometimes the heat of the moment takes over, and the onboard footage shows this wasn’t one of those moments.. they are incredibly rare.
I have no affiliation to either driver, but the press like everyone getting all excited as it sells stories.. it’s all about the media coverage and audience numbers.
One of what moments? You don't have to swerve into someone for it to be against the rules. MV should have got a penalty for that, he made no effort to drive the corner and like several other times LH new what was coming as kept well away. Weve seen it time and time again with Max, just look at the swerving beforehand, the man is a liabilty.
 

Smiffy

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I understand all that, but to say that a driver goes out to try and hurt another by forcing a crash , which might also end their own career, is crazy
Search YouTube for Schumacher trying to squeeze Rubens Barrichello up against the pit wall in the 2010 Hungarian Grand Prix. If they had come together at that speed, they would have both been killed.
That will show you what a nasty piece of work he was.
Any respect I had for him disappeared that day.
 

harpo_72

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One of what moments? You don't have to swerve into someone for it to be against the rules. MV should have got a penalty for that, he made no effort to drive the corner and like several other times LH new what was coming as kept well away. Weve seen it time and time again with Max, just look at the swerving beforehand, the man is a liabilty.
He missed the apex in his defence, that’s what stopped Hamilton going across him. He was ahead of Hamilton because he was later on the brakes, watch the onboard footage. By doing that he got priority into the corner, once he has priority taking the apex is a choice ( which he didn’t really have because he was a little too quick) . Hamilton has to make a decision have a crash or keep tight and take advantage which will be in the next few corners.
 

BiMGuy

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He missed the apex in his defence, that’s what stopped Hamilton going across him. He was ahead of Hamilton because he was later on the brakes, watch the onboard footage. By doing that he got priority into the corner, once he has priority taking the apex is a choice ( which he didn’t really have because he was a little too quick) . Hamilton has to make a decision have a crash or keep tight and take advantage which will be in the next few corners.
There are traces taken from the gps on twitter that show Max was something like 40kph (I may be well out, it’s been a long day) faster through that corner during the incident.

There is no doubt whatsoever that Max knew exactly what he was doing. A driver of his skill doesn’t make a mistake like that. I’ve also no doubt than Max would have preferably crashed and taken them both out of the race.

As for the weaving. The rule was introduced because of Max’s antics when he started in F1.

As much as I’m enjoying the battle this season, I would love to see someone stand up to Max in the final few races and let him crash into them. Bottas, I’m looking at you!
 

harpo_72

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There are traces taken from the gps on twitter that show Max was something like 40kph (I may be well out, it’s been a long day) faster through that corner during the incident.

There is no doubt whatsoever that Max knew exactly what he was doing. A driver of his skill doesn’t make a mistake like that. I’ve also no doubt than Max would have preferably crashed and taken them both out of the race.

As for the weaving. The rule was introduced because of Max’s antics when he started in F1.

As much as I’m enjoying the battle this season, I would love to see someone stand up to Max in the final few races and let him crash into them. Bottas, I’m looking at you!
I don’t think his error was large, I think he meant to have priority into the corner. Hamilton was quick and left him there looking like a turnip.
 

cliveb

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Amazes me that some people on this thread think that a driver would deliberately try and cause a crash, especially at the speeds they go in F1. They may go to the edge, but to actually try and endanger someone's life?
Consider run of the mill road rage. People start doing really stupid (and illegal) things, but they aren't actually trying to kill the other driver.
F1 drivers are also human, and the red mist can descend.
 

Swango1980

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He missed the apex in his defence, that’s what stopped Hamilton going across him. He was ahead of Hamilton because he was later on the brakes, watch the onboard footage. By doing that he got priority into the corner, once he has priority taking the apex is a choice ( which he didn’t really have because he was a little too quick) . Hamilton has to make a decision have a crash or keep tight and take advantage which will be in the next few corners.
That is an incredibly flawed argument. Otherwise you could just say that any time a driver is behind another as they approach a corner, and inside that driver, they can simply avoid breaking. Assuming the car in front wishes to take the corner, they'll break, so the following car will inevitable fly past them up the inside, or smash straight into them.

At some point you've got to say that the following driver has some responsibility to try and take the corner, let alone avoid crowding out another driver who was in front of them and forcing them off the circuit
 

harpo_72

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That is an incredibly flawed argument. Otherwise you could just say that any time a driver is behind another as they approach a corner, and inside that driver, they can simply avoid breaking. Assuming the car in front wishes to take the corner, they'll break, so the following car will inevitable fly past them up the inside, or smash straight into them.

At some point you've got to say that the following driver has some responsibility to try and take the corner, let alone avoid crowding out another driver who was in front of them and forcing them off the circuit
It’s not flawed and it’s the way it was … watch the on boards , take screen dumps and give us the full PowerPoint on it
 

BiMGuy

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I don’t think his error was large, I think he meant to have priority into the corner. Hamilton was quick and left him there looking like a turnip.
I didn’t say it was a error. Quite the opposite. Max knew exactly what he was doing.
 

harpo_72

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I didn’t say it was a error. Quite the opposite. Max knew exactly what he was doing.
You said he was 40kph faster in … that’s too fast if the sector analysis and corner speeds were available you would see his average and fresh tyre best. He shut out Hamilton which is his right but his speed was too great to make the ideal line .. he was entitled to his line purely because he was first in .. it’s not pretty but that’s how the onboard shows it .. I am still waiting on Swango’s ppt to show otherwise , if so we can all call Verstappen a shuffler ( but not in front of dad or grandad, they are hard as nails )
 

Swango1980

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You said he was 40kph faster in … that’s too fast if the sector analysis and corner speeds were available you would see his average and fresh tyre best. He shut out Hamilton which is his right but his speed was too great to make the ideal line .. he was entitled to his line purely because he was first in .. it’s not pretty but that’s how the onboard shows it .. I am still waiting on Swango’s ppt to show otherwise , if so we can all call Verstappen a shuffler ( but not in front of dad or grandad, they are hard as nails )
His speed was too great to make the ideal line? Haha, you are a joker. He missed the outside of the bend by about 10 yards, let alone the apex. He either knew what he was doing, or is an awful driver. Either way, it isn't acceptable to be put others at risk just because you are that incompetent in taking a corner
 

BiMGuy

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You said he was 40kph faster in … that’s too fast if the sector analysis and corner speeds were available you would see his average and fresh tyre best. He shut out Hamilton which is his right but his speed was too great to make the ideal line .. he was entitled to his line purely because he was first in .. it’s not pretty but that’s how the onboard shows it .. I am still waiting on Swango’s ppt to show otherwise , if so we can all call Verstappen a shuffler ( but not in front of dad or grandad, they are hard as nails )
Max had no right to that corner, and was only in front because he had no intention of taking the corner as he should. Lewis was far enough in front at the point they should have been turning in to make the corner.
Max caused Lewis to leave the circuit, which is a clear cut breaking of the rules. Especially as Max himself ended up 4ish car widths off the circuit.
 
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