F1 2021

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SaintHacker

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Great race yesterday, felt sorry for Lando but he should have listened to his team.
Yep, total lack of experience. That said maybe the pit wall should have been a bit more insistent, particularly when it became obvious Merc weren't just throwing a pitlane dummy
 

Miller

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Great for Russell to out qualify Lewis again, I really do hope that's a sign of things to come.

And I really hope that Russell is allowed to race Lewis next year and not just be another Bottas.
 

BiMGuy

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Great for Russell to out qualify Lewis again, I really do hope that's a sign of things to come.

And I really hope that Russell is allowed to race Lewis next year and not just be another Bottas.
Bottas is allowed to race. He's just not good enough to keep up.

Once he is out of the championship running, Mercedes use him to support Lewis. Again, something he's not very good at.
 
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Miller

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There's been a few times when Mr Wolff has told Bottas to support Lewis.

Back in 2018, Bottas was told to let Lewis pass. The inference is that Mercedes have been prioritising Lewis and his aim to win multiple championships.

Bottas would accept team orders to support Hamilton’s title bid - On Digital Shop

Bottas most recently followed team orders in this year’s British Grand Prix, when Hamilton was recovering from his time penalty, allowing the seven-time world champion through en route to a late victory over Charles Leclerc.
Reflecting on the 2018 race in Russia, Bottas said that it was a different situation and that while it was difficult to take at the time, he has since moved on and grown from the call.
“That’s a few years ago, but at least now I can be fine with things,” Bottas said.
“At that point, yes, it was painful. And for me, it was hard to accept.
“But we’ve obviously moved on since, and also I’ve grown a lot since. Things are a bit different now.”
It's clear that Bottas does have pace and experience - the Netflix documentary shows that he actually aims to qualify in third so that he has the slipstream into the first corner. Although saying that, he does balls things up more often than not and loses positions at the first corner too.

Strategy decisions from Mercedes do seem to benefit Lewis more than Bottas though. I've seen plenty of times where Lewis benefits from a pit stop and Bottas just goes backwards.
 

cliveb

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Bottas showed his true colours yesterday, by immediately jumping out of Verstappen's way when the one job he had to do was hold Max up for as long as possible.
He should be shown the door. Now.
 

Canary_Yellow

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There's been a few times when Mr Wolff has told Bottas to support Lewis.

Back in 2018, Bottas was told to let Lewis pass. The inference is that Mercedes have been prioritising Lewis and his aim to win multiple championships.

Bottas would accept team orders to support Hamilton’s title bid - On Digital Shop



It's clear that Bottas does have pace and experience - the Netflix documentary shows that he actually aims to qualify in third so that he has the slipstream into the first corner. Although saying that, he does balls things up more often than not and loses positions at the first corner too.

Strategy decisions from Mercedes do seem to benefit Lewis more than Bottas though. I've seen plenty of times where Lewis benefits from a pit stop and Bottas just goes backwards.
That's a pretty one sided view of a few different events.

First choice of strategy is given to the driver in the lead, this has always been the case. For example, neither driver would be allowed to undercut their teammate via a pitstop.

In 2018, Bottas was miles off in the drivers championship, Lewis was at the top, why on earth wouldn't the team ask them to swap positions? It would be daft not to. If they were both at the top competing for the title, then Lewis would have been told to hold position to bring home the 1, 2.

Bottas does not have the pace, that is clear. From time to time he qualifies well and he wins the odd race, but over the course of a season, he's not quick enough. That's not down to Merc prioritising Hamilton, it's down to the relative abilities of the two drivers.
 

Canary_Yellow

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https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/1...ut-praises-max-verstappen-amid-extreme-battle

Anyone else struggling to reconcile Nico Rosberg's opinion with what we've seen so far this season?

What I see is a Red Bull car that is marginally faster than the Merc, with two circuits coming up which have suited the Red Bull very nicely in recent years. Verstappen isn't showing any signs of cracking under pressure, and I think he'll win the next two races. I can't see Hamilton catching him from there as I very much doubt Verstappen will finish anything worse than 2nd for the rest of the season.

I suppose reliability could be a factor, but again, there's been nothing to suggest that Red Bull is more likely to suffer a failure, if anything it seems more likely that Hamilton will have to take a grid penalty for further parts.

Can't see past Verstappen winning the Championship personally. Quite possibly before the last race.
 

bobmac

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Can you imagine how insufferable he'll be if he wins the world championship. I for one won't be watching him take all the credit for the amazing work his team has done to give him a great car.
I wonder what demands he will make next year as champion
 

Smiffy

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Going to be an interesting run in to the end of the season that's for sure.
I'm not keen on either driver to be honest, but if I had to pick one I'd choose Hamilton, (just), because I'd like to see him go into the history books.
I like Verstappens aggressiveness, he's a racer through and through. But with him, it always seems to be somebody else's fault when things go wrong, and I hate the way he is mollycoddled by Horner.
Hamilton is a brilliant racer, full stop. He possesses fantastic race craft, and a maturity that only comes with experience. But I cannot get my head around his public persona. The clothes he wears, some of the tripe he comes out with. He leaves himself open to ridicule.
He doesn't meet most F1's fans expectations of a true F1 driver. Would you have seen Prost, Senna, Mansell etc. walking around dressed the way Hamilton does, or riding down the pitlane on a scooter???
Each to their own, but I look on him as a snowflake driver, ideal for the snowflake generation that we live in today.
So maybe he came along at the right time????
It is going to be very interesting next year to see how he handles the partnership with Georgie boy.
 
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Swango1980

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Going to be an interesting run in to the end of the season that's for sure.
I'm not keen on either driver to be honest, but if I had to pick one I'd choose Hamilton, (just), because I'd like to see him go into the history books.
I like Verstappens aggressiveness, he's a racer through and through. But with him, it always seems to be somebody else's fault when things go wrong, and I hate the way he is mollycoddled by Horner.
Hamilton is a brilliant racer, full stop. He possesses fantastic race craft, and a maturity that only comes with experience. But I cannot get my head around his public persona. The clothes he wears, some of the tripe he comes out with. He leaves himself open to ridicule.
He doesn't meet most F1's fans expectations of a true F1 driver. Would you have seen Prost, Senna, Mansell etc. walking around dressed the way Hamilton does, or riding down the pitlane on a scooter???
Each to their own, but I look on him as a snowflake driver, ideal for the snowflake generation that we live in today.
So maybe he came along at the right time????
It is going to be very interesting next year to see how he handles the partnership with Georgie boy.
I agree generally with what you say, but I do not quite get the "snowflake" reference? Maybe his fashion sense does not quite meet your eye, but so what. Calvert Lewin the Everton player has an interesting dress sense, but I doubt Everton fans use that against him when judging him as a footballer (or even a person).

Hamilton is a bit "offish" at times, a bit short in his answers when things do not go his way. He certainly is not the bubbly character of someone like Riccardo. So, I can see why some might not quite take to him in that sense (although many love Raikkonen and he can certainly come across as extremely dreary and miserable). However, I've nothing against him if he wants to raise awareness about certain issues outside F1. He is lucky enough to be in a position to have that platform, and whether we agree with him or not, he will say what he does as he feels it could make a positive change.

I've always supported Hamilton, primarily as I'm naturally drawn towards supporting the Brits. And, he is that good, I'd love him to continue building his legacy. It does not go unnoticed that he gets a terrible reception when he races outside the UK, well at least around continental Europe. I feel sorry for him, as it never really feels deserved. It is not like he tries to barge people off the tracks like Schumacher did in his prime. So, the more booing he gets, the more I support him and want him to win.

On the other hand, I can't stand Verstappen and pretty much agree with your assessment. He is an excellent talent, but he is like a ridiculously sulky teenager, anything that goes wrong is always someone elses fault. He'll happily ram someone off the track, and expects everyone just to get out of his way. Spoilt kid syndrome. I'm happy in a way, as I always find F1 is more interesting when there are drivers you really support, but also drivers you love to hate.

The end of the season will be an interesting one.
 

Canary_Yellow

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Going to be an interesting run in to the end of the season that's for sure.
I'm not keen on either driver to be honest, but if I had to pick one I'd choose Hamilton, (just), because I'd like to see him go into the history books.
I like Verstappens aggressiveness, he's a racer through and through. But with him, it always seems to be somebody else's fault when things go wrong, and I hate the way he is mollycoddled by Horner.
Hamilton is a brilliant racer, full stop. He possesses fantastic race craft, and a maturity that only comes with experience. But I cannot get my head around his public persona. The clothes he wears, some of the tripe he comes out with. He leaves himself open to ridicule.
He doesn't meet most F1's fans expectations of a true F1 driver. Would you have seen Prost, Senna, Mansell etc. walking around dressed the way Hamilton does, or riding down the pitlane on a scooter???
Each to their own, but I look on him as a snowflake driver, ideal for the snowflake generation that we live in today.
So maybe he came along at the right time????
It is going to be very interesting next year to see how he handles the partnership with Georgie boy.
I don't really see how any F1 driver can be described as a snowflake. They all have balls the size of grapefruits to drive in the way they do.

You're comparing Hamilton with drivers from a bygone era, but putting that to one side, why should he be anyone other than Lewis Hamilton? I don't agree that he leaves himself open to ridicule, being different should be celebrated. As should standing up for oneself even if that is not a popular view.
 

Canary_Yellow

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I agree generally with what you say, but I do not quite get the "snowflake" reference? Maybe his fashion sense does not quite meet your eye, but so what. Calvert Lewin the Everton player has an interesting dress sense, but I doubt Everton fans use that against him when judging him as a footballer (or even a person).

Hamilton is a bit "offish" at times, a bit short in his answers when things do not go his way. He certainly is not the bubbly character of someone like Riccardo. So, I can see why some might not quite take to him in that sense (although many love Raikkonen and he can certainly come across as extremely dreary and miserable). However, I've nothing against him if he wants to raise awareness about certain issues outside F1. He is lucky enough to be in a position to have that platform, and whether we agree with him or not, he will say what he does as he feels it could make a positive change.

I've always supported Hamilton, primarily as I'm naturally drawn towards supporting the Brits. And, he is that good, I'd love him to continue building his legacy. It does not go unnoticed that he gets a terrible reception when he races outside the UK, well at least around continental Europe. I feel sorry for him, as it never really feels deserved. It is not like he tries to barge people off the tracks like Schumacher did in his prime. So, the more booing he gets, the more I support him and want him to win.

On the other hand, I can't stand Verstappen and pretty much agree with your assessment. He is an excellent talent, but he is like a ridiculously sulky teenager, anything that goes wrong is always someone elses fault. He'll happily ram someone off the track, and expects everyone just to get out of his way. Spoilt kid syndrome. I'm happy in a way, as I always find F1 is more interesting when there are drivers you really support, but also drivers you love to hate.

The end of the season will be an interesting one.
I'm with you on Hamilton. I actually quite like Verstappen though, maybe like isn't the right word, but I've a lot of respect for him. He's a very talented driver in raw speed terms, but he's one of the few that also have the mentality to back that up. In my opinion he's very similar to Hamilton, if you think back to the kid that arrived in F1 back in 2007.

The one I find a bit tedious is Alonso, not him personally, but the level of smoke that gets blown up his bottom by commentators and others over his ability. He might be fast, I don't doubt that, but seems to me that he's missing a certain something. I think he could have won at least one more world titles (probably 2) if he was as good as Hamilton.
 

Swango1980

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I'm with you on Hamilton. I actually quite like Verstappen though, maybe like isn't the right word, but I've a lot of respect for him. He's a very talented driver in raw speed terms, but he's one of the few that also have the mentality to back that up. In my opinion he's very similar to Hamilton, if you think back to the kid that arrived in F1 back in 2007.

The one I find a bit tedious is Alonso, not him personally, but the level of smoke that gets blown up his bottom by commentators and others over his ability. He might be fast, I don't doubt that, but seems to me that he's missing a certain something. I think he could have won at least one more world titles (probably 2) if he was as good as Hamilton.
I'll admit my dislike of Verstappen is purely down to what I see in F1, particularly over recent events. Yeah, there is a lot of Hype over Alonso, but he has not exactly given any prolonged domination. I think he showed early promise that he could be a great, but never fulfilled on that. He is like the Paul Pogba of F1.
 

cliveb

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I can't see why Hamilton's lifestyle should influence anyone's opinion of him as a racing driver. His taste in clothes, music, and general off-track activities is the polar opposite of mine. But as a racing driver he strikes me as the most complete package I've ever personally witnessed. There have been other drivers with the raw speed and racecraft, but the thing that sets Hamilton apart for me is his utter sportsmanship and willingness to acknowledge his own mistakes. I'm too young to have known how the likes of Fangio, Moss et al behaved. They may well have been consumate gentlemen, as was Jim Clark. But in the modern era, none of the superstars (Senna, Prost, Mansell, Lauda, Piquet, Alonso and especially Schumacher) had anything like the humility I see in Hamilton.

Verstappen has amazing speed, but the thing which will hinder his development are Horner and Marko. As long as they never tell him when he's ****ed up, he won't learn.
 

BiMGuy

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It always amuses me that people don’t like Lewis because of his dress sense. But the same people probably do like Jackie Stewart and Hunt.
I would happily wear the same clothes as Lewis if it generated me the money it does him. He probably thinks overweight middle aged men dressed in pink polo shirts and beige trousers look ridiculous.

He seems to be someone the kids look up to.
https://www.northantslive.news/news...wis-hamilton-dons-disguise-school-6142552.amp
 

Smiffy

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I don't really see how any F1 driver can be described as a snowflake. They all have balls the size of grapefruits to drive in the way they do.
You're comparing Hamilton with drivers from a bygone era
Maybe "snowflake" was the wrong term to use. And I agree, all F1 drivers have balls the size of grapefruits, their skills and bravery are to be admired.
But maybe it's just me being born in the wrong era. Being a "child of the 60's" I grew up watching a different kind of sportsman than we have today.
Footballers were tougher then. You had "hard men" like Ron Harris, Billy Bremner, Norman Hunter, Tommy Smith etc. who were admired, and feared, for their tenacity and grit. Not pretty, but it was effective.
Then you had the more skillful players. Best, Bowles, Osgood, Marsh, Greaves. These guys were legends, but as well as being supremely skillful, they could take the knocks. Watch old videos from the 70's and these players would have seven shades of shite kicked out of them, but they never complained. They just got up, wiped the mud off of their hands, and got on with it.
Nowadays?? A player has only got to be brushed against and he goes down like a sack of spuds, writhing in agony, like he's been poleaxed. I've got no time for it. I'm not advocating the rough play of the 70's by the way, but get annoyed that there are so many "mamby pambies" around in sport nowadays.
And whilst supremely skillful, Lewis Hamilton does not fit into my idea of a "hero". He's not a "man's man" which is a shame.
So I guess it's me......
 

Bunkermagnet

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I woul£ suggest the footy players acting like they have been shot is just that, acting. Some players are just as dirty as days gone by but they are more subtle about it.
Hamilton is the exceptional driver of his era. Forget the car he drives, and compare it to the difference between him and his team mate.
JVS comes across to me as a very good driver, but just a bully. I have no time for his antics or poor me attitude.Ultimately, he is the epitome of Horner and Red Bull as a whole. Whinge all day long when they don’t get what they want.
A Red Bull team run by Ron Dennis or Frank Williams would have been a different animal.
 

Canary_Yellow

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Maybe "snowflake" was the wrong term to use. And I agree, all F1 drivers have balls the size of grapefruits, their skills and bravery are to be admired.
But maybe it's just me being born in the wrong era. Being a "child of the 60's" I grew up watching a different kind of sportsman than we have today.
Footballers were tougher then. You had "hard men" like Ron Harris, Billy Bremner, Norman Hunter, Tommy Smith etc. who were admired, and feared, for their tenacity and grit. Not pretty, but it was effective.
Then you had the more skillful players. Best, Bowles, Osgood, Marsh, Greaves. These guys were legends, but as well as being supremely skillful, they could take the knocks. Watch old videos from the 70's and these players would have seven shades of shite kicked out of them, but they never complained. They just got up, wiped the mud off of their hands, and got on with it.
Nowadays?? A player has only got to be brushed against and he goes down like a sack of spuds, writhing in agony, like he's been poleaxed. I've got no time for it. I'm not advocating the rough play of the 70's by the way, but get annoyed that there are so many "mamby pambies" around in sport nowadays.
And whilst supremely skillful, Lewis Hamilton does not fit into my idea of a "hero". He's not a "man's man" which is a shame.
So I guess it's me......
That’s fair enough Smiffy. I can’t force anyone to like Hamilton, but I think his talent and achievements warrant respect, quite often more than he’s given.

Going a bit off topic, although I’m with you in not liking the play acting element that has come with modern football, I much prefer that the “thuggery” side of it has been taken out of the game and been replaced by skill. Perhaps there aren’t as many “hard men” around now, but I’d say there’s two parts to that:

1. There’s no place for someone that’s tough but not top level with the ball at their feet; and
2. Any hard men that are still around can’t play in that fashion as they’d be sent off

I don’t think the play acting is so much because players are “mamba pambies” but rather that the modern approach to pretty much all modern elite sport is marginal gains, including when it comes to gamesmanship.

I actually very much enjoy watching Championship football as it seems to have more of the competitive edge of years gone by, while also being a much higher quality product than it used to be. I’d like it to 90s premier league style football a lot of the time!

Which brings me to my overall conclusion, everyone looks back to what they enjoyed when they were first bitten by the football bug! For me, it’s the 90s and early 2000s. I’m not a United fan, but I loved the way they played in that era, much more than I liked the way Arsenal played, for example.
 
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