EVEL - Not Worthy of Full Debate!

SwingsitlikeHogan

SwingsitlikeHogan

Major Champion
Joined
Jul 24, 2012
Messages
34,010
Visit site
Debate on EVEL going on today. How call this possibly not be deemed Primary Legislation? It changes the way the Commons works; makes Scottish (and also Welsh?) Westminster MPs 'second tier' MPs; and by effectively devolving certain matters to English MPs only it, in effect, establishes an English government. How can EVEL therefore be deemed a Statutory Instrument - and so legislation that is not so important and deemed not worthy of the level of debate Primary Legislation gets.

The Conservative government being quite staggering in it's level of arrogance, conceit and disregard for the governance of the UK, and it's history.
 
So its Ok for The Scots, Welsh and Northern Irish to have devolved powers and therefore a devolved form of government, but not the English.?

having said that.....
I can see what they are trying to do, but my own personal take on it is that if it involves establishing another tier of government, then it adds in a load more costs and expenses that weren't there before.

They should be trying to slim down government
 
PhilTheFragger said:
So its Ok for The Scots, Welsh and Northern Irish to have devolved powers and therefore a devolved form of government, but not the English.?

having said that.....
I can see what they are trying to do, but my own personal take on it is that if it involves establishing another tier of government, then it adds in a load more costs and expenses that weren't there before.

They should be trying to slim down government
Click to expand...

It always amazes me that the USA can be run by 100 Senators and 435 Representatives. Less than the UK, yet with a population of over 320 million.
 
Hobbit said:
It always amazes me that the USA can be run by 100 Senators and 435 Representatives. Less than the UK, yet with a population of over 320 million.
Click to expand...

Yes but it gives Sheriff Donkey Brain, who is his wifes brother, and also the Mayor, loads of power in CowPat County Arizona :)
 
Hobbit said:
It always amazes me that the USA can be run by 100 Senators and 435 Representatives. Less than the UK, yet with a population of over 320 million.
Click to expand...

That's because the US is a federation and the Federal government only deals with federal matters . Try adding the legislators for all 50 states into that count!

Btw. Wouldn't it be great is the EU was rather more streamlined - 751 'representatives' etc is far too many!

As for EVEl...Seems a sensible, if sensitive, idea.

And it has now been approved 312-270
 
Last edited:
Just have another vote and bugger off then, PLEASE :smirk:

Why should Scottish MP's be able to vote on health & education (examples) which ONLY affects England or England & Wales? The House of Commons has no say on similar matters in Scotland as those policies were devolved!
 
Fish said:
Just have another vote and bugger off then, PLEASE :smirk:

Why should Scottish MP's be able to vote on health & education (examples) which ONLY affects England or England & Wales? The House of Commons has no say on similar matters in Scotland as those policies were devolved!
Click to expand...

Dear god why is it so hard to understand!?

The principle of EVEL is perfectly correct but this is the wrong way to go about it. We need Scottish, English, Welsh and NI parliaments all with identically devolved powers. And preferably the members meeting up two days a week at Westminster for UK business rather than having double the MPs!

Trying to get the UK Parliament to double up as the English Parliament with some ugly "quick fix" is a complete disaster. It will end badly!
 
FairwayDodger said:
Dear god why is it so hard to understand!?

The principle of EVEL is perfectly correct but this is the wrong way to go about it. We need Scottish, English, Welsh and NI parliaments all with identically devolved powers. And preferably the members meeting up two days a week at Westminster for UK business rather than having double the MPs!

Trying to get the UK Parliament to double up as the English Parliament with some ugly "quick fix" is a complete disaster. It will end badly!
Click to expand...

:thup:

Couldn't agree more.
 
Meantime it just gives the SNP more ammunition for their twisted views, and they're not wasting any time.....

Stewart Hosie ‏@StewartHosieSNP 23m23 minutes ago
When they said "better together" they meant second class. When they said "lead don't leave" they meant Scots votes don't count. #EVEL
Click to expand...
 
Personally I don't care what the SNP think about it. Any laws effecting just England should have absolutely nothing to do with Scottish or Welsh MP's.

I'm happy with it, the lads at work have been chatting about and are all in agreement that it's about time.

Some of us are simply sick to the back teeth with all the debates going on about Scotland, Wales & NI yet finally when the English get something.....
 
FairwayDodger said:
Dear god why is it so hard to understand!?

The principle of EVEL is perfectly correct but this is the wrong way to go about it. We need Scottish, English, Welsh and NI parliaments all with identically devolved powers. And preferably the members meeting up two days a week at Westminster for UK business rather than having double the MPs!

Trying to get the UK Parliament to double up as the English Parliament with some ugly "quick fix" is a complete disaster. It will end badly!
Click to expand...

Totally agree......I do not think you will find a sane person in the UK who would disagree to an English Parliament.
Westminster is the UK Parliament and should remain so.
If it does not there will obviously be no need for the UK.
 
Duckster said:
Personally I don't care what the SNP think about it. Any laws effecting just England should have absolutely nothing to do with Scottish or Welsh MP's.

I'm happy with it, the lads at work have been chatting about and are all in agreement that it's about time.

Some of us are simply sick to the back teeth with all the debates going on about Scotland, Wales & NI yet finally when the English get something.....
Click to expand...

That something would be the UK Parliament.:lol:
 
FairwayDodger said:
Dear god why is it so hard to understand!?

The principle of EVEL is perfectly correct but this is the wrong way to go about it. We need Scottish, English, Welsh and NI parliaments all with identically devolved powers. And preferably the members meeting up two days a week at Westminster for UK business rather than having double the MPs!

Trying to get the UK Parliament to double up as the English Parliament with some ugly "quick fix" is a complete disaster. It will end badly!
Click to expand...

Yeah, but that would be too easy, it'd never work.


The principle is sound. Execution? Not so sound.




Better still, close the wee kiddy on talking shop parliaments and go back to a single UK Government! That'd get my vote.
 
Last edited:
...and so with the vote going the governments way that's us with EVEL on it's way. Does anyone know what it actually is; how it will work etc? So the House of Commons of the UK Parliament that has been in place for a few hundred years has been crucially changed - almost on a whim - and with hardly a by-your-leave to the UK electorate. That's OK then. Well onwards - to what? Most obvious thing is that there will most likely never again be a Prime Minister or Cabinet Member from a Scottish Westminster Parliamentary constituency - just one thing that shows that Westminster can no longer be considered a UK Parliament.
 
c1973 said:
Yeah, but that would be too easy, it'd never work.


The principle is sound. Execution? Not so sound.




Better still, close the wee kiddy on talking shop parliaments and go back to a single UK Government! That'd get my vote.
Click to expand...

Can't now happen as the permanence of the Scottish parliament is enshrined in the Scottish Powers bill currently going through parliament
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
Can't now happen as the permanence of the Scottish parliament is enshrined in the Scottish Powers bill currently going through parliament
Click to expand...

Key words, going through. :)

They could (should imo) alter it and just say, sod it sell off Holyrood for housing, pay the lot of the chancers off and go back to the real Parliament. File it under massive expensive mistake. :)
 
c1973 said:
Key words, going through. :)

They could (should imo) alter it and just say, sod it sell off Holyrood for housing, pay the lot of the chancers off and go back to the real Parliament. File it under massive expensive mistake. :)
Click to expand...

Also too late - EVEL is going through - can't have EVEL and no devolution to Scotland, NI and Wales
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top