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England Squads for Winter Tour

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Good choices in regards Duckett and Hameed

But with the spinners they have decided to ignore

The spinner who has got 58 wickets this year and left armer and the 6ft 4 spinner

And gone with a 38 year old who has only picked up 30 wickets and not played test cricket for years

And a guy who keeps getting injured

Why they ignored Leach I will never know but taking Batty ?! Why ?
 
LP, agree about Leach and Ollie Rayner, should both be there. I still think that we should also be picking a pure gloveman too. Both Bairstow and Buttler fall short with the mitts at the highest level in my opinion. Duckett has been unbelievable and had to go. Hameed got a lot of his runs earlier in the season and thus may need to find some form quickly.
 
Plenty of very good judges who watch more 4 day cricket than me think Batty has been the best spinner in county cricket this year (he has 41 not 30 wickets btw). If nothing else thats a pretty poor indictment of spin bowling levels in this country. Hes being picked clearly as a one off to India but isnt going to get a game unless Moeen gets injured or they play 2 off spinners (and Rashid and Root) so is clearly straight cover for Moeen.

As for Leach, bit early for him, read an article on him from Rogers his county captain which summed it up nicely, got to prove it over more than one season, emotionally not ready and most of his wickets have come on very helpful wickets. If thats the view his own skipper has hard to pick him for an away trip to the sub continent.

One thing is for sure, the spin bowling cupboard is horribly bare, India going to be a very tough tour especially in the longer format of the game
 
If Batty isn't going to play then what's the point in taking him ? Get one of Leach or Rayner there to experience the tour - they are the future we should be looking at not Batty.

Leach may need to prove himself a second season but the last week he stepped up a level with the destruction of the mighty Yorkshire

Leach has made massive strides this season - if he was playing for a Surrey or Yorkshirw he would be in straight away
 
Thats part of picking a squad surely, you take some players who are direct cover for others in the squad?

England clearly want to pick 2 spinners one who turns it each way. So 1st test almost certainly be Moeen and Rashid with Batty cover for Moeen and Ansari cover for Rashid. With Root also in the side Id be surprised if they pick another out and out spinner. Not saying thats who I wouldve picked but thats clearly what they are thinking.
 
Not sure about Batty either, TBH. India are laden with right handers and you need a left hand spinner option really. Ansari is left handed but as LP, said, injured and unproven this season.
 
Spin has been a problem for England for nearly as long as I can remember with only the very odd exception (most recently Swann).

The pitches, climate and nature of cricket played in this country all mitigate against the development of young spin bowlers. With that in mind I don't think the inclusion of Batty is a bad thing as it does, at least, provide the captain with an experienced option.

It does, however, appear that we are making the same mistake in this area as we have with the wicket-keeping in not always selecting the best specialist but looking for a compromise with the candidate's batting.
 
We could also go down the perceived Surrey bias route here too with Ansari and Batty both on the trip and neither pulling up trees. You can see why Scott Borthwick has signed there !!!!! Ironically the one Surrey player who my opinion should be there isn't and that's Ben Foakes. The kid's a proper keeper, schooled and learned from James Foster and now he's been given the number 1 job there he hasn't looked back.......and he keeps to their spinners on a daily basis !!!!
 
drewster said:
We could also go down the perceived Surrey bias route here too with Ansari and Batty both on the trip and neither pulling up trees. You can see why Scott Borthwick has signed there !!!!! Ironically the one Surrey player who my opinion should be there isn't and that's Ben Foakes. The kid's a proper keeper, schooled and learned from James Foster and now he's been given the number 1 job there he hasn't looked back.......and he keeps to their spinners on a daily basis !!!!
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For me it is bias towards the "bigger" counties when it comes to picks.

As for the keeper issue - I think there are pros and cons for either and it's about weighing them up

For me having someone like Bairstow with the bat has won test matches - he puts on runs that a speclisit keeper doesn't and I think even those keepers drop catches and miss stumpings

Can't recall many keeping errors that have cost England a test or a series

I think they are right by looking at people like Bairstow and Buttler - both are improving behind the stumps
 
One thing is for sure, this years county championship the best advert possible against those who want to change test cricket from 5 days to 4 days with almost 2/3rds of games drawn. Not one side going to win more than 6 of 16 games across the 2 divisions. Yes there has been a lot of weather interruption (but that will always happen, especially in this country), cant be helping the development of spinners and as a knock on the playing of spin either.

PS Essex Essex Essex :) may be a bit harder staying up next year though!
 
They could have taken Leach, Raynor or Batty but tbh, they wont get a game ahead of Rashid and Ali. They probably went for Batty as they believe he would be the better mentor for Ali and Rashid.

Personally, I think the toughest choice they have to make is in the seam bowling. They should try and get wood in the starting XI but with Woakes golden season and Anderson and Borad cemented, it boild down to a shoot out between Rashid and Wood. As they are on the sub-continent, they will play Rashid.

I also would have liked to have seen another batter in the place of Ansari. He should be on a lions tour, but his season has been pretty unspectacular, albeit, he has been unlucky with injury. it just seems like a token selection. I'd have preferred to see Westley or Northeast in.
 
Junior said:
They could have taken Leach, Raynor or Batty but tbh, they wont get a game ahead of Rashid and Ali. They probably went for Batty as they believe he would be the better mentor for Ali and Rashid.

Personally, I think the toughest choice they have to make is in the seam bowling. They should try and get wood in the starting XI but with Woakes golden season and Anderson and Borad cemented, it boild down to a shoot out between Rashid and Wood. As they are on the sub-continent, they will play Rashid.

I also would have liked to have seen another batter in the place of Ansari. He should be on a lions tour, but his season has been pretty unspectacular, albeit, he has been unlucky with injury. it just seems like a token selection. I'd have preferred to see Westley or Northeast in.
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Wood be the first quick bowler on the sheet for me, Broad shouldnt be anywhere near the starting Xi in the subcontinent and you can actually make an argument not to pick Andersen too (albeit I would).

For me 1st test in India Id be picking Wood, Andersen then Woakes, Moeen and Rashid with Stokes and Root if needed. Add 3 batters and a keeper and voila

the risk picking andersen and woakes is if it doesnt reverse then we could be in a big hole, shame we dont have a decent left arm option
 
Liverpoolphil said:
For me it is bias towards the "bigger" counties when it comes to picks.

As for the keeper issue - I think there are pros and cons for either and it's about weighing them up

For me having someone like Bairstow with the bat has won test matches - he puts on runs that a speclisit keeper doesn't and I think even those keepers drop catches and miss stumpings

Can't recall many keeping errors that have cost England a test or a series

I think they are right by looking at people like Bairstow and Buttler - both are improving behind the stumps
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No but I can recall them both shelling reasonably easy chances on a consistent basis , it just so happens that it gets overlooked because the bowling has been generally good. When Bairstow drops Kohli on 23 this Winter and he then goes on to make 223 and India win perhaps people will take notice. With Stokes and Woakes both rightly in the team we can take a specialist keeper and Bairstow can play as a batter.
 
drewster said:
No but I can recall them both shelling reasonably easy chances on a consistent basis , it just so happens that it gets overlooked because the bowling has been generally good. When Bairstow drops Kohli on 23 this Winter and he then goes on to make 223 and India win perhaps people will take notice. With Stokes and Woakes both rightly in the team we can take a specialist keeper and Bairstow can play as a batter.
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is there a genuine specialist keeper out there that you can guarantee isnt gonna shell Kohli though? Almost all keepers are in the batter/keeper mode these days, is there an out and out keeper who is enough of an improvement? Too early for Foakes? Cox? Simpson?

Agree that Bairstow could be exposed, especially in sub continent conditions (must be the hardest place to keep), just not sure there is a significantly better option

That said England selectors arent going this route, if they didnt pick Bairstow it would be another keeper batter (Buttler or Billings)
 
[QUOTE PS Essex Essex Essex :) may be a bit harder staying up next year though![/QUOTE]

Indeed it will but since Grayson has been given the Spanish Archer the change is incredible and you wouldn't believe it but two of homegrown talents have now returned to the club which will bolster our Div 1 campaign. We'll lose Napier, Masters and Foster but have gained Chopra and Wheater and with some very good county players like Tom Westley ,Nick Browne , Ravi Bopara and RTD we'll be alright for runs . We just need to recruit very wisely when selecting our overseas player and I'd suggest a bowler. Someone like young Amir from Pakistan would do nicely !!!!
 
drewster said:
[QUOTE PS Essex Essex Essex :) may be a bit harder staying up next year though!
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Indeed it will but since Grayson has been given the Spanish Archer the change is incredible and you wouldn't believe it but two of homegrown talents have now returned to the club which will bolster our Div 1 campaign. We'll lose Napier, Masters and Foster but have gained Chopra and Wheater and with some very good county players like Tom Westley ,Nick Browne , Ravi Bopara and RTD we'll be alright for runs . We just need to recruit very wisely when selecting our overseas player and I'd suggest a bowler. Someone like young Amir from Pakistan would do nicely !!!![/QUOTE]

Definitely be good to have Chopra and Wheater back but some big shoes to fill whilst going up to the top div. Masters been hugely under rated for years and Napier gets a lot of wickets, gonna need at least 2 decent wicket taking replacements
 
fundy said:
Wood be the first quick bowler on the sheet for me, Broad shouldnt be anywhere near the starting Xi in the subcontinent and you can actually make an argument not to pick Andersen too (albeit I would).

For me 1st test in India Id be picking Wood, Andersen then Woakes, Moeen and Rashid with Stokes and Root if needed. Add 3 batters and a keeper and voila

the risk picking andersen and woakes is if it doesnt reverse then we could be in a big hole, shame we dont have a decent left arm option
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Agree with your selections 100%. I saw Stokes bowl some off spin on a vine in the last round of county matches. I'm hoping it was just an over before tea type of thing and not a look into what's to come in this series.
 
So the ECB wont let Bairstow play in the County Championship decider despite him desperate to play. Shocking disrespect of the fans yet again but what do you expect.

And as for Adil Rashid asking to be rested for the game, what an embarrassment. A title decider for your county who have paid your salary for 10+ years and helped make you the cricketer you are and suddenly you think you are billy big bollox and the game is beneath you ahead of a tour to Bangladesh. Hope Yorkshire terminate his contract and show him the door, ungrateful prima donna
 
Lord Tyrion said:
Really poor decision by Rashid. That decision will haunt the rest of his Yorkshire career. The supporters will never forget this.
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It's a very short sighted decision and I wonder if it'll signal the end of his career there. The fans won't forget as you rightly say and a few poor performances early next year will make life very tough for him
 
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