Employment law query.

[splashtryagain]

I have little knowledge of the ins and outs of this area so............

One of my golf partners has had some trouble with depression over the last 3 years and has found himself off work quite regularly. Sometimes he doesn't phone in due to anxiety. He has been demoted from his assistant manager post due to unreliability but now faces being fired due to excessive abscence. He has had warnings over the years and is/was on his final warning. Has he got a leg to stand on or is his card marked as such? I wonder this as I thought you couldn't actively dismiss someone for a sickness related issue. Any views/insight from the clever folk on here?

 

[Fader]

Speak to ACAS about anything relating to employment law, they help free of charge over the phone with any query and will give definitive answer to your query

 

[Rooter]

deffo worth getting some proper advice. although IMHO, if he is well enough to play golf, he is well enough to work. regardless he should have informed his work about being absent, even a text is a better than nothing. has he provided them with doctors letters etc explaining his condition?

 

[splashtryagain]

Doctors notes etc provided. His work even had him assessed themselves with the same result.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Splash
It depends mainly on his doctors/hospital health records.
I had a former work colleague with an alcohol problem like this, he was eventually dismissed after 3 years.
His employers can have him/her examined by their own doctor and that has a strong bearing on future employment.

 

[smange]

deffo worth getting some proper advice. although IMHO, if he is well enough to play golf, he is well enough to work. regardless he should have informed his work about being absent, even a text is a better than nothing. has he provided them with doctors letters etc explaining his condition?

I take it from that statement that you or anyone you know has never suffered from depression or any other mental illness.

A very ignorant and irresponsible quote.

As has been already said, get proper advice from the experts and ACAS is best place to start.

 

[splashtryagain]

Should have added he doesn't play golf if he has been off that day.

 

[DappaDonDave]

From a HR prospective. I think they can easily get rid of him for either ill health/capability. He is clearly no longer capable of doing his job. As long as they have followed their own sickness procedures, stage 1 meetings, stage 2 meetings etc they can easily dismiss your friend.

If he is over retirement age I suggest he puts in a request for voluntary redundancy and draws his work pension if he can.

Otherwise his p45 will be in the post, if he is dismissed...no payout unless he can wrangle PILON (pay in lieu of notice)

 

[Mungoscorner]

I take it from that statement that you or anyone you know has never suffered from depression or any other mental illness.

A very ignorant and irresponsible quote.

As has been already said, get proper advice from the experts and ACAS is best place to start.

Exactly what i was thinking.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

His company HR/OH should have interviewed him to see if there were any work-related issues underlying or contributing to your friend's anxiety. If there had been any (and the fact that he was worried about phoning in sick suggests that there were) - his company would be 'duty-bound' by employment law to try and reduce the stress on him. That could have meant a change of position/role - which as it turned out happened through 'demotion' - but that would have possibly increased his anxiety rather than reduced it.

I doubt very much that a company can sack someone if they are genuinely ill - regardless of whether or not he can do his job. That's perhaps tough on the employer but that's probably how it should be. There will however be a period of illness after which the employer can start reducing his salary/pay and then when his doctor would have to confirm whether or not he was able to work.

 

[GreiginFife]

As Dave says above, if the company has followed all internal procedures and had L1 and L2 meetings as a minimum they can proceed to move for summary dismissal under capability (unsustainable absence usually quoted). However, IIRC Depression was a condition that was included and covered under Disability Discrimination Act revision 2007 which means it is very difficult for a company (with any savvy) to dismiss due to DDA.
Also worth noting that if the company has a set process for notifying absence (e.g. call within 1 hour of start) and the employee doesn't then the company can use non compliance as a reason (failure to follow procedure) and this is regardless of the illness. If the employee has a doctors certification however, they do not need to follow this process while covered by the cert as this provides the employer with duration of absence.

My advice is that he speaks to a company HR rep in confidence surrounding DDA and where he stands.

 

[DappaDonDave]

As Dave says above, if the company has followed all internal procedures and had L1 and L2 meetings as a minimum they can proceed to move for summary dismissal under capability (unsustainable absence usually quoted). However, IIRC Depression was a condition that was included and covered under Disability Discrimination Act revision 2007 which means it is very difficult for a company (with any savvy) to dismiss due to DDA.
Also worth noting that if the company has a set process for notifying absence (e.g. call within 1 hour of start) and the employee doesn't then the company can use non compliance as a reason (failure to follow procedure) and this is regardless of the illness. If the employee has a doctors certification however, they do not need to follow this process while covered by the cert as this provides the employer with duration of absence.

My advice is that he speaks to a company HR rep in confidence surrounding DDA and where he stands.

I believe it is covered under the equality act if it is defined as a disability. But, any HR advisor worth their salary would point out that any adjustments made would be unreasonable so capability dismissal would be the only option. You can not run a service with an employee who may or may not turn up.

As advised. Speak to ACAS or union rep or citizens advice. But expect a difficult battle to keep the job unless the employee is getting better.

 

[palindromicbob]

I take it from that statement that you or anyone you know has never suffered from depression or any other mental illness.

A very ignorant and irresponsible quote.

As has been already said, get proper advice from the experts and ACAS is best place to start.

Was just thinking the exact same myself there Stevie. In fact one of the local GP's in my area has been known to "prescribe" golf to those he knew that played, when they have been off work with depression or stress.

 

[Foxholer]

In fact one of the local GP's in my area has been known to "prescribe" golf to those he knew that played, when they have been off work with depression or stress.

Bit iffy whether that would help or contribute to depression!

 

[GreiginFife]

I believe it is covered under the equality act if it is defined as a disability. But, any HR advisor worth their salary would point out that any adjustments made would be unreasonable so capability dismissal would be the only option. You can not run a service with an employee who may or may not turn up.

As advised. Speak to ACAS or union rep or citizens advice. But expect a difficult battle to keep the job unless the employee is getting better.

Agreed on all points.

 

[splashtryagain]

Thankyou all so much for your replies. I have advised him to phone acas and see where he gets. Thanks again for the help.