Dropping Point - Water Hazard

[AmandaJR]

I'm hoping the image will load up but just in case it's here:

http://www.bramptonparkgc.co.uk/pag.../d503f2a2-847a-11e1-b768-bc305bd9eec9/15.html

Played yesterday and was told about a senior (as in important!) player suggesting a drop point which I *think* is wrong. So the stakes are yellow on the tee side of the lake as you'd expect. On the far side they start as yellow but become red stakes pretty much from the start of the tree line on the left. Player yesterday hit her shot straight and very short so splashed down in the middle of the water. I suggested the drop is either this side of the hazard or from the tee (no practical place to drop in reality as quite overgrown plus trees blocking the line). So she had heard said player suggesting that even though the ball hadn't hit the bank past the red stakes it had virtually crossed the line from water to lateral hazard and a drop using lateral rules could be taken on the far side of the lake. We both felt that was incorrect...

As ever I think I know the rule but am never 100% so good job I can ask on here so I'll know next time!

Cheers.

 

[rulefan]

It depends on where the ball (last) crossed the margin of the hazard. Nothing to do with hitting the bank.
Did it last cross between yellow or red stakes?

 

[louise_a]

I would have thought that the lateral hazard is intended for shots played from the green side of the water, ie hitting a shot from the bunker too long.

 

[AmandaJR]

It depends on where the ball (last) crossed the margin of the hazard. Nothing to do with hitting the bank.
Did it last cross between yellow or red stakes?

Definitely crossed the hazard on the near side where it is all yellow. I mentioned the bank as thought that was a definition of where the red stakes start (in terms of this shot/drop point) rather than it being an imaginary line across the water which is what is being assumed...

 

[Colin L]

Rulefan's question is the pertinent one. You are confirming that the ball last crossed the margin of the pond on the tee side marked yellow, so that is the reference point for the drop. The way in which a tee shot could end up crossing the lateral water hazard margin would be if your drive went left of the pond and then curved right into it over the red staked margin.

There is no such thing as a virtual line down the middle the pond dividing the hazard - apart from in the over-wrought imagination of your fellow member,

 

[AmandaJR]

Rulefan's question is the pertinent one. You are confirming that the ball last crossed the margin of the pond on the tee side marked yellow, so that is the reference point for the drop. The way in which a tee shot could end up crossing the lateral water hazard margin would be if your drive went left of the pond and then curved right into it over the red staked margin.

There is no such thing as a virtual line down the middle the pond dividing the hazard - apart from in the over-wrought imagination of your fellow member,

That's what I thought and perhaps he's confused with the principle that a hazard also has a vertical margin - if that makes sense?!

I hadn't considered the scenario of a huge slice crossing said vertical hazard boundary though and never hitting land...

 

[Colin L]

Never talk of huge slices, just delicate fades.

Here is how it looks on your plan of the hole. Two shots end up in the same place in the water but cross the different margins on their way there. The one coming from left to right over the red staked margin gives the additional option of dropping within 2 clublengths of B. The other you have to drop back on the line through the hole and A.

 

[AmandaJR]

Never talk of huge slices, just delicate fades.

Here is how it looks on your plan of the hole. Two shots end up in the same place in the water but cross the different margins on their way there. The one coming from left to right over the red staked margin gives the additional option of dropping within 2 clublengths of B. The other you have to drop back on the line through the hole and A.

View attachment 6051

Brilliant. Perfectly explained and will print the diagram for the player I was with yesterday who agreed the information she had heard was rubbish but then neither of us considered the baby high fade which might result in a drop on the far side

 

[duncan mackie]

Brilliant. Perfectly explained and will print the diagram for the player I was with yesterday who agreed the information she had heard was rubbish but then neither of us considered the baby high fade which might result in a drop on the far side

there's a reason the hazard margins are designated rather than painting the hazard itself (accepting that this would be somewhat difficult!) - they are the only thing that's relevant!

where did it last cross the margin, what colour is the margin it last crossed - these answers provide your options and the reference point for those options.

and 'virtually crossing' anything is a dead give away to someone spouting garbage

 

[rulefan]

Never talk of huge slices, just delicate fades.

Here is how it looks on your plan of the hole. Two shots end up in the same place in the water but cross the different margins on their way there. The one coming from left to right over the red staked margin gives the additional option of dropping within 2 clublengths of B. The other you have to drop back on the line through the hole and A.

View attachment 6051

Colin

What software did you use to superimpose the lines on the original image?

 

[Colin L]

I use a Mac. I dropped the jpg from Amanda's post on to a Pages document, added the lines with the drawing tools in Pages and then took a screen grab of the altered image. Uploaded that as a jpeg to my post. Pages is the word processing and drawing part of iWork which also includes Numbers (spreadsheets) and Keynote which is for presentations similar to PowerPoint.

 

[rulefan]

Thanks
I have just worked out how to do it in Lotus Freelance.