Drivers with draw?

[Glenfish]

Just wondered what your views are on Drivers with draw?
I am a high handicapper, I feel that my irons are really improving with lessons and my short game too! But I have big slice problems with a driver, so is it worth investing on a draw/driver?

 

[EchtLoon]

yes

 

[TonyN]

NO! I had a slice, then got a lesson, then got rid. Now my draw bias driver does my nut in. If i want to hit it straight down the fairway it normally lands to the left if i'm playing well. If i do slice it, no doubt it holds up and reduces the walk of shame slightly. But i dont slice it enough for it to make up for the draws i dont want.

But its on you! (and if you do fancy a draw bias, i have a lovely callaway FTI 10* reg shaft going)

 

[brendy]

Never ever buy a driver that is designed to have a big draw or fade. Fix your game before its too late. You will enjoy a better game and your scores will come down as a result, I draw the ball but its not the be all and end all.
One other thing, if it takes a draw club to straighten you out, imagine how the bad shots are going to go....even worse!

 

[TonyN]

Brendy i wish you had said that a couple of months ago!

 

[billyg]

It's one way of sorting it and fair play to the manufacturers for offering this option in this way.

However, if it's a big name driver then you're looking at a lot of spondies. That's a lot of lessons and a decent book/DVD or two that would help to explain the fundamentals of why it happens in the first place then address drills to resolve it.

Not everyone want's to read, watch instructional vidoes or take lessons though for a whole host of reasons- fair enough. If you fall into this catagory then maybe it's the tool for you.

Try before you buy and get the launch monitor to prove it helps before shelling out IMHO.

 

[Glenfish]

Brendy, that sure makes sense but how much and how long could/will it take to fix? After all I don't want to win the open but I do aspire to mid handicap. So maybe I should just buy one of these clubs knowing that I will regularly hit good drives then I can enjoy the game???

 

[TonyN]

Go for a lesson fist, will cost less than 20 quid and you could sort it with in a week! Then save the beer tokens for...... wine?

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I currently have a Cleveland Hi Bore XLS 10.5 degree with regular shaft which I have on a sale or return basis. Its actually supposed to be the demo version for my local AG but the manager has given it to me to use for a couple of months.

I have to say I was sceptical at first especially when I tried it down the range with my Callaway Big Bertha 460 11 degree. The BB was hitting the ball as straight as normal (I guess 6 out of 10 straight - at least within the two reference points I use on the range to indicate a fairway when I am practicing).

The Cleveland hit the ball on a much lower trajectory but was as accurate (no difference - 6 out of 10). I was concerned I was losing distance as the BB seemed to fly higher and therefore looked to be going further. I retire to my practice ground at Ascot and used 20 balls ten marked with a red dot and ten with a green (for use with the Cleveland).

I have to say in terms of distance what the Cleveland lost in actual flight through the air it made up for in in run (caused by the draw spin). Probably not ideal in the midst of Winter but perfect for hitting long running shots in Summer.

I have to say I normally play with a draw anyway but there was no excessive difference (no big hooks) and my stock hot if I missed a fairway was a straight block. If anything the Cleveland helped by about 10 yards (that is to say I was 10 yards straighter than where the BB would normally have been).

I used the Cleveland in a practice round the day before and in the GM challenge with realgolferuk (Dave). He may be able to give you an unbiased view of what he thought of the way I drove the ball but I'm actually very happy with it (especially as money hasn't changed hands and if the batteries go flat I know I can send it back).

 

[brendy]

Glenfish, I agree with Billyg, some people just want a fix and while it might fix one aspect of your game, what happens to your 3 and 5 woods, do you go out and buy draw bias substitutes for them also?
Where does it stop? Before long you will have traded in your irons, made a £100 + loss on the rrp, woods etc it all adds up.
2 or 3 lessons will do you the power of good and from my own personal experience, I was playing of 12 was over swinging and swaying instead of turning when hitting all of my clubs (putter and all! haha) I had around 7-8 lessons in total and my handicap halved in well under 6 months.
Essentially all golfers attack the ball from roughly the same overall position, its only a case of fine tuning your body to alter that very very slightly in the grand scheme of things. Dont knock it until you try it. I guarantee that you will come away from your first lesson with a more positive outlook on your own swing and you will think perhaps corrective clubs are not needed.
Im a sucker for analogies, its like buying a sex aid for your wife when you have the very tools for success on your own person you just need to learn how to use them.

 

[Glenfish]

Thanks for the replies and analogies Brendy
I am in the middle of a series of lessons, my next lesson is on the driver/3 wood, so will see afterwards, I was just amazed at the consistency of the draw/driver. Will let you know how it goes, cheers!

 

[theeaglehunter]

I have a draw driver which was purchased to eradicate a slice when I first started playing, and now that I can swing a club properly (like TonyN) I hate it. Theres no doubt when I was slicing it it did keep it on the fairway but I find myself now deliberately trying to fade it in order to keep it straight. I can live with the draw I just have to allow for it, and my driving has been reasonable recently so I'm not doing too bad with it but feel my game would be better if I had a neutral club. Once I've paid off my new irons, and bought myself a 3 wood I'll look at a new driver.

Oh and before I forget to answer the actual question within my waffle...Don't bother with a draw club unless you only plan on playing once a month when a slice will always be present. If your going to play regularly buy something neutral and just practice.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I have to agree wit Glenfish about the consistency. I feel like I have a safety net knowing that the big cut or the slight fade has been taken out of the equation.

I have found I only need to aim slightly right of centre to get a nice right to left and having experimented in the last week have found the optimum tee height with which to hit it on a much higher trajectory. The result is a longer straighter drive.

Played on my own on Sunday and took both drivers out on the front nine (15 clubs I know but hey live a little). Have to say because the course was quiet I was able to play two balls on every tee and compared the Callaway with the Cleveland. There were 5 holes which I used driver on and I hit a big cut slice on one with the Callaway and one was a slight pull left.

Working on Brendy's post theory, I managed to hit 4 out of five fairways with the Cleveland (the one that missed was a straight push). I was also about 5-10 yards longer with the draw bias (extra run).

My swing hadn't changed and I was hitting both clubs almost as well as each other. I had a lesson the other week which highlighted a major problem with reverse pivot and a lateral head movement. As my stance and posture have been changed significantly I am now more compact with my swing and swinging on a consistent path. That said I am not hitting huge hooks as implied by Brendy's assumption

I only acquired this driver on a whim and to try out draw bias technology. I have to say I firmly believe it has a place for golfers who cannot necessarily afford regular lessons or have no time or inclination to put into practice anything they learn should the have one.

Brendy, I am not for one minute de-valueing your posts and your points are valid particularly about draw bias clubs throughout the bag. However as getting the ball into play (ideally a long way down there) it does make hitting irons into greens easier from the shorter stuff than the knee deep jungle.

 

[bunkered]

Brendy, do you honestly believe a draw driver can help you stop slicing the ball, i have got a ft3 draw and i can slice it, hook it,and hit it straight i think its more to do with your set up rather than the driver.

 

[RGuk]

is it worth investing on a draw/driver?

OK....right up my street. A draw driver is NOT, I repeat NOT going to fix your slice.....I can slice my Callaway draw driver at will, and frequently do on two dog legs at my course.
What it can do is tame the severity of the slice..which might help the odd player who's drives tail of with a bit too much fade at the end.
Despite the name "draw" bias, it will NOT, I repeat NOT make anyone draw the ball other than those that usually hit it dead straight. Two months ago, I was drawing the ball and binned the draw bias BECAUSE it was adding to the hook spin when I didn't want. I am using it just now, to calm down the tail-fade and it works nicely.....for now.
Whatever it costs, it's not going to pay you back as much as lessons.......
They are not magic clubs, we are talking v. small improvements for an equally small selection of players. If you are swinging across the line and pulling it left OR leaving the face open and slicing it, you will not hit a straight ball. NO WAY, JOSE......you'll either pull it left (and it'll stay there) or not be as far right as with a regular club.

Sorry to sound like an uncompromising git, but if you have a good driver, don't go there.....

 

[brendy]

Homer, it'd be a boring life if everyone just agreed!
I believe that draw clubs/progressive offset clubs are a fix to a problem but they are not a cure.
Would you rather say you use a draw biased driver to stay safe or a neutral driver to stay safe but also have the choice of playing draws, fades and straight shots with a little more tuition and belief all with one club.
I dont believe for a second that someone with 2 arms, 2 legs and a head on their shoulders cannot learn to hit a reasonably straight ball, or even embrace their natural shot. Lee trevino never used a draw bias.
All my thoughts, pointers and general sillyness are given in the friendly spirit of this forum, never take anything I say as being derogatory, slanderous or darn right insulting as they are never meant that way. Everyone has their own ideology of how to play golf, mine is to improve and improve until you are giving 100% and are happy with the effort even if not the results.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Brendy

I never took any of the remarks in anything other than your normal old fashioned good humoured way. I couldn't hit a soft fade if my life depended on it (big slice across two post codes I can do). I couldn't hit it with any regularity when I was off low single figures. I know how to do it but just can't reproduce it when I need it.

I'm with realgolferuk (and yourself for that matter) in that if you hit big banana slices this club still won't get you hitting straight. What I'm saying is that it takes the odd cut fade more or less out of the equation for me and does help with the blocks right.

My new swing is now pretty neutral in that I'm not looking to move the ball in any general direction other than as straight as possible and in play. What I have found is that with the extra draw spin I have regained some lost distance.

I guess you could look at it in the same way as hybrids. A few years ago if you told someone you had a club that was part wood and part iron and was a great tool for getting out of rough and better than a 3 iron they would have laughed. Real golfers use 3 irons would have been the posts on here. They are a cheap gimmick.

Well hybrids are here to stay and I think more and more drivers will come out as there is definitey a market. I have to say though having tried other draw bias (Taylormade and Ping G10) I am amazed that the Cleveland doesn't actually sit that closed at address (maybe a couple of degrees).

At the end of the day it is horses for course. My aim is to get down to single figure (10 as an absolute last resort). My pro thinks it realistic and he's seen me hit shots with the draw club and hasn't shown any undue concern. As I hit consistently with the Big Bertha and Cleveland I think its got to be extra run in Summer and big high boomers from te BB in winter

 

[RGuk]

My new swing is now pretty neutral in that I'm not looking to move the ball in any general direction other than as straight as possible and in play. What I have found is that with the extra draw spin I have regained some lost distance.

I've been thinking about this (whilst out walking the dog) and your comment is worth noting. You and I are both in the "lost zone" of accidentally hitting all kinds of shots. Some folk might see this as a bad thing, but most players who know better can see the benefit of not coming through too in or out (and suffering the inconsistency of there being no pattern to learn off). Eventually, after the lessons and some ingraining, the picture becomes a little clearer, and then it's possible to shoot some great scores. I don't want my hooks/draws/push back and am prepared to live with the pick n mix for the time being. The shot that causes the most grief is the random slice (skimmed version (not full fat))and with this a draw bias can help. Also, i.i.r.c. when you hit what would have been a dead-straight drive, you did actually get a tail draw at the end, adding some yards and "satisfaction" to a great drive.
A consistent drawer will never be able to manoeuvre/create a gentle fade with a draw driver because the ball will simply not start left.......every shot is a selection of various shapes that all start right.....?
f.w.i.w. a draw bias driver should be properly called something else.......if what I have seen in your drives and mine of late, the only time you'll hit a real draw is actually when it would have been dead straight or starting right the smallest fraction.
Interesting to note also that the MAJORITY of tour players utilise the opposite theory (i.e. a driver 1* open).....are they wrong to do this?.....I think not.....most supposedly straight hitters do in fact come a degree or two from the inside. Ernie used to draw it all the time, he's tried to tweak his plane more upright and come through more neutral....so we're in good company.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Dave I whole heartedly agree although my doctor has put me on the semi-skinned slice!!! Can I ask how you thought I hit it last week. Obviously I am slightly blinkered and not always objective about it. In essence I thought I hit the ball well off the tee on the Wednesday (as we both did) but drove more erratically in the match (tempo too quick as we struggled). Still felt I was hitting solidly though.

As always your constructive comments greatly received

 

[RGuk]

I thought you did indeed hit it well off the tee. If the irons had been as comparatively accurate, you'd have knocked it round mid 70s, no joke.

Like me, you pushed a few with a unwitting closed stance (just by a few cm) and lost it right under pressure, scared of the out and out hook. My lesson concentrated on keeping the face "looking" at the ball for the first 2 ft or so....now this is keeping it nicely square.....but when it hooks, it's wild!!!