Driver launch angles and spin rates

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Simbo

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Has anybody got any technical data on the above????

I have had a quick play about on a flightscope last week. Iv been complaining about distance all year, I don't feel I should be 1 or 2 clubs down on the guys I play with, although they are exceptionally good golfers.
My driver was fitted by titleist so it must have been the correct shaft for me. I use a titleist d3, 10.5 degree with a project x 83 gram stiff shaft. I'm fairly accurate with it but just think I should hitting it further than I am.
Flightscope results showed an average carry of 198 yards!! Swing speed 94.4, ball speed 136.9, back spin rate was off the charts at 3536 and launch angle was 12.6, all averaged over 12 shots.

Any tech bods got a comparison type table for averages for those figures???

Please don't turn this into a "how far do you hit it thread". Thanks
 
with that clubhead speed you need spin to get carry

if anything looks 'wrong' it's the shaft weight for the swing speed (not to be confused with the stiffness)

deal with the clubhead speed first - absolutely no point in even considering anything else
 
What do you mean by "deal with clubhead speed first" ???

When fitted the fitter told me I needed the heavier shaft to keep the ball flight down
 
duncan mackie said:
with that clubhead speed you need spin to get carry

if anything looks 'wrong' it's the shaft weight for the swing speed (not to be confused with the stiffness)

deal with the clubhead speed first - absolutely no point in even considering anything else
Click to expand...

I'm not sure that is actually true. Simbo's SS is the same as mine with driver and my average carry is about 25-30yds more than his. Sadly, I'm no expert and don't remember all the stats from my fitting but I do know my smash factor was 149-150 so I am getting everything out of my swing, Simbo it seems, for one reason or another is not.
 
With the right spin and launch, 95 mph driver speed should get something in the 225 or 230 carry. I agree with Duncan that 83g shaft weight looks awfully heavy for a 95 mph swing speed. Most Tour pros have 115-120 mph driver speed and use lighter than 83g shafts, albeit often quite stiff ones. The spin rate also looks high and launch a bit low for the swing speed. IMO, this shaft is not suited to you at all. I would be interested to see what you would get from the same clubhead with a Diamana S+ (similar to Kaili/blueboard) 60-odd gram shaft, in regular if you have a smooth transition or stiff is quickish.
 
I would say your launch angle is fine, your spin rate is too high, and the shaft is too heavy. Normal driver shafts weigh in at around 60-65g (uncut) sometimes a 70-75g shaft is used for someone who needs one slightly heavier. At your swing speed 83g is too heavy. My advice would be to use a normal weight driver shaft that is just a little stiffer in the tip to bring the spin down to somewhere around the 2500 rpm mark. You should increase your swing speed a little with the lighter shaft, keep your launch angle the same and decrease the spin to give more carry.
 
The heavier shaft should help keep the flight down and limit dispersion as (in theory - i think) the weight helps it stay on plane. That said, I'd echo Ethan and say that you're potentially not justifying that shaft with current swing speed.

My 'normal' speed is up around the 107-110 mark now and I've recently changed to a stiff shaft (from an x-stiff). I'm finding the flight is much better and the right shaft is still helping keep the spin down. Maybe your swing speed was different when you got fitted? I know that I ended up with the shaft I did because I was swinging out of my boots on every shot (112-115) but taking this on the course was just not realistic. It meant that I had to swing as I hard as I could every drive to get the most out of it.

I've also been told by various people that spin should be sub-3000 (could be wrong) to get the most out of a driver distance wise, on condition that it's launching correctly. Maybe look at lower-spin options if you are going to change?
 
You can plug different numbers in to this simulator and see what affect each has on carry distance.

http://www.flightscope.com/index.php/Technology-Explained/trajectory-optimizer.html

For your numbers it suggests 216yds but I haven't played about with it to see what happens if you change launch angle and spin.
Were you using range balls or proper balls?

If you're close to me, I have a 73g PX shaft you could try if you wanted, although I think Ethan's suggestion would probably suit better.
 
I think you are looking for closer to 14-15 degrees of launch and just under 3000 rpm of spin. Whatever shaft gives you that will give you at least 20 yards more carry, and possibly a lot more.

The desirable modern ball flight is one that takes off a bit higher but has a flat boring trajectory in the air, hence the enthusiasm for high launch, low spin shafts and heads on foar like this.

Most Tour pros have gone to higher lofted drivers than a few years ago, typically 9.5 or 10.5 some even 11.5 (Nick Watney and Carl Petterson, for example) yet you still see club golfers with middle handicaps still using 8.5 or 9.5.

A lot of club golfers would find they get a better flight and just as much distance with their 3 wood.
 
Ok, thanks for the input, I'm sure the guy said when he fitted me the heavy shaft was to help with dispersion and keep my ball flight down, I have just had another look at my chart and iv noticed that right in the middle of all the figures there is a line which is completely nonsense, I just read the average figures at the bottom earlier-sorry. it has no carry at all in it, all the other figures are nonsense in that line aswell- no sure what happened there. meaning my total average should have been divided by 11 and not 12. Which means I should now have an average carry of 213 yards. Still short IMO????

Getting a new driver just now unfortunately isn't an option, can't afford it right now. But I might try a lighter shaft and see what it does to my swing speed????
 
Simbo said:
Ok, thanks for the input, I'm sure the guy said when he fitted me the heavy shaft was to help with dispersion and keep my ball flight down, I have just had another look at my chart and iv noticed that right in the middle of all the figures there is a line which is completely nonsense, I just read the average figures at the bottom earlier-sorry. it has no carry at all in it, all the other figures are nonsense in that line aswell- no sure what happened there. meaning my total average should have been divided by 11 and not 12. Which means I should now have an average carry of 213 yards. Still short IMO????

Getting a new driver just now unfortunately isn't an option, can't afford it right now. But I might try a lighter shaft and see what it does to my swing speed????
Click to expand...

213 yards sounds about right at your clubhead/ball speed, if you took a few hundred rpm of back spin off it and launched it 2 or 3 degrees higher you would gain approx 5 yards.

As others have said 83 grams is very heavy for your clubhead speed, switching to a lighter shaft should help you gain a little clubhead speed. The biggest impact on distance is ball speed. If you could find 4mph more clubhead speed (6mph ball speed) & keep your current launch angle and spin rate you would gain around 14 yards. Get the launch up a bit & take a little spin off it you might be looking at 20 yards more carry than where you currently are.
 
If it's of any use since people are saying your shaft is too heavy, I have a 65g Kai'li shaft in my driver. I know there is a lot more too it than that but when I had my Titleist fitting there was no mention of needing a heavier shaft to keep flight and dispersion down, he did it all with loft\shaft combination. The heaviest we went to was 70g but that didn't last long.
 
Maybe your flight and dispersion were fine when you got fitted mate??? My ball flight is high! Right the way through the bag, and this was a prime area I wanted to change when I got fitted. as iv said I hit quite a lot of fairways and generally my dispersion is much better than when I used my previous driver. I just feel that I'm lagging a bit behind the guys I'm trying to compete with.

How fast do you need to swing to use a shaft that's 83grams??
 
As several inc Simon above said - shaft too heavy.

in profile below are mine - driver is 913D3, 9.5°, (Diamana D+ White 72 Stiff) set at D3, +0.75 degree, most draw. IIRC my SS was around 105 mph. It carries about 250-260 yds. With guffy yellow one piece range balls it carries 225-230 on clean straight slightly drawing flight.

with my old driver (cobra) I was getting 3800 spin and launch of 12 degrees.... After fitment launch was 9-10 degrees and spin below 2500. You want a bit above 2000 rpm and launch a bit above 10 degree IIRC. The 913 flight is much lower penetrating flight.
 
The more I read of his the more I think there is a little detail being missed out. Have you been given a heavier shaft to improve your tempo and nullify an aggressive transision ? ( spelling is appalling sorry .. But I do maths). The other point is based on my own findings the 910s are not the hottest of faces... But if you want to try something cheap try a pro launch red or a motore f1
 
Smash Factor is lower than it should be, so a 'better' strike would give you 10 yards or more of carry.

I to am puzzled by the 83gm shaft. If it's just to keep flight down, then why? Do you play on links/windy courses?

A higher launch (say 18*) would give you more carry (5 yards or so), but if you could reduce spin - even by 500rpm - you will get more than 5 yards.

But the shaft weight seems to be what's limiting things most. For every 2mph of swing speed - and that should be simple to do - you get 5yards extra. As that will also increase launch, there'll be a double benefits. A 60-65gm shaft should produce better results.

A cheapish test would be a Prolaunch Red 65 imo (Low Spin, Low-Mid Launch) - no need to go to 'expensive' ones, though the fact that shafts are easily swappable might mean you can test several out.

Tee-ing it higher and hitting more up on the ball - if you can - should both reduce spin and increase launch too.

Good Luck.
 
Last edited:
Interesting thread..... lots of talk about shafts and weights, just one IMPORTANT part missing


Your angle of attack.

You might improve your launch angle and lower your spin rate just by hitting more UP on the ball. The more you hit level (or even down as many tour pros do) the lower the launch, the higher the spin, and the less the carry is. They get away with it simply because they swing so damn fast!!


Do you happen to know what it is? without it we can actually tell NOTHING.
 
Last edited:
JustOne said:
Interesting thread..... lots of talk about shafts and weights, just one IMPORTANT part missing


Your angle of attack.

You might improve your launch angle and lower your spin rate just by hitting more UP on the ball. The more you hit level (or even down as many tour pros do) the lower the launch, the higher the spin, and the less the carry is.


Do you happen to know what is is? without it we can actually tell NOTHING.
Click to expand...

Er, try reading the last real line in the post immediately above yours!

And with that low launch, it seems likely that there's potential for a better AoA
 
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