Drive for Dough???

BiMGuy

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But how annoying would it be if you flushed an iron and watched it sail over the back of the green because you based your yardage on a mis-hit. Selecting a club based on expecting to mis-hit it doesn't sound like positive mental attitude either!
The strategy should be to pick a club that will hit the back of the green if you flush it. Which of course the vast majority of us do infrequently.

Hitting it long because you've hit one pure would be no more irritating to me than leaving one short that I've bit poorly.
 

pendodave

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Listened to a pga/college coach and he says it's not just choppers who fail to club themselves properly. The gir stats on tour are between 10 and 20% lower for front pins than back where distance to the pin is constant.
 

Orikoru

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The strategy should be to pick a club that will hit the back of the green if you flush it. Which of course the vast majority of us do infrequently.

Hitting it long because you've hit one pure would be no more irritating to me than leaving one short that I've bit poorly.
Yeah that's what I tend to do. I usually club for the back of the green, or between back and middle if back isn't an exact club for me. If the pin is right at the front I'll club for the middle. I had a rangefinder for just under a year (luckily got my money back when it broke after 11 months), and there were too many times I zapped the pin, front of green, went down a club and left it short. I went back to the GPS app after that as middle and back of green are all I need.
 

sunshine

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Listened to a pga/college coach and he says it's not just choppers who fail to club themselves properly. The gir stats on tour are between 10 and 20% lower for front pins than back where distance to the pin is constant.
Lots of greens slope from back to front, so if you have a front pin it is often better to be a couple of yards short of the green and below the hole, rather than putting downhill from the middle of the green.
 

DeanoMK

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Not read through the whole thread, apologies, but I've been listening to the Hack It Out podcast and Scott Fawcett, the man behind DECADE, mentioned this video:


For me, I've definitely found that my handicap coming down definitely coincides with the fact I'm now hitting my driver more often, keeping it in play more and hitting it a little bit further than before.
 

BiMGuy

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Lots of greens slope from back to front, so if you have a front pin it is often better to be a couple of yards short of the green and below the hole, rather than putting downhill from the middle of the green.
Maybe if the slope is severe. But on the greens most of us play on it shouldn't be a big issue.
 

sunshine

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There is generally less trouble behind a green than in front.
Count the holes on your course that have bunkers or water hazzards behind the green?
No way! That is completely wrong! On my course it is better to be short than long on all 18 holes. It's the same for pretty much every course I can think of. Maybe the Old Course you can go long and chip back?

Penalty for coming up short: bunker, maybe a dropped shot but chance to get up and down.
Penalty for going long: thick rough, lost ball and 2 shots gone.
 

sunshine

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Unless you play at Augusta I'm pretty sure they will be manageable to most
I was talking about on tour, where you often see players come up short when playing to a front pin. Usually when there is a nice apron at the front.

But my course is also an Alister MacKenzie design so Augusta is not a bad comparison :ROFLMAO:
 

BiMGuy

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I was talking about on tour, where you often see players come up short when playing to a front pin. Usually when there is a nice apron at the front.

But my course is also an Alister MacKenzie design so Augusta is not a bad comparison :ROFLMAO:
Scoring on tour is much worse when there is a front pin.

The best players in the world are those that typically go past the pin on approach shots, chips and putts.
 

pendodave

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Lots of greens slope from back to front, so if you have a front pin it is often better to be a couple of yards short of the green and below the hole, rather than putting downhill from the middle of the green.
A couple of things here that add to my previous remark :
1. The pod went on to say that an analysis of pga pros revealed that the ones that were misclubbing the front pins scored worse, and were more likely to lose their cards, than those that did not.
2. Again, for analysis of good players, downhill/uphill is a much smaller factor in making a putt that the absolute distance. Additionally, making from off the green is much less likely than making from on the green.
Now, all of these are for pros/elite ams, so I realise that there are limits for useful comparison to 'normal' people like us.
It might not seem this way, but I don't have a particular axe to grind on this, I'm just relaying information gleaned from research by people that actually have the time to do it. IIRC it is based on work by Scott Fawcett who is referenced on this thread somewhere by someone else. He is very hot on stats and game management.
I'm currently experimenting with the overclubbing myself, early days etc, but it seems to be a good thing.
 

SimonC

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No way! That is completely wrong! On my course it is better to be short than long on all 18 holes. It's the same for pretty much every course I can think of. Maybe the Old Course you can go long and chip back?

Penalty for coming up short: bunker, maybe a dropped shot but chance to get up and down.
Penalty for going long: thick rough, lost ball and 2 shots gone.
Exactly the same at my course (also an Alister MacKenzie design - Cavendish in Buxton) the last place you want to be on almost every hole is long it's either thick rough or you are completely short sided. However, most amateurs do not take enough club, I'm constantly telling my dad to hit 1 extra club and pick the yardage to the back of the green as he regularly comes up well short.
 

evemccc

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Yeah that's what I tend to do. I usually club for the back of the green, or between back and middle if back isn't an exact club for me. If the pin is right at the front I'll club for the middle. I had a rangefinder for just under a year (luckily got my money back when it broke after 11 months), and there were too many times I zapped the pin, front of green, went down a club and left it short. I went back to the GPS app after that as middle and back of green are all I need.
I’ve found the different ideas of this thread useful…I think going forward I will club from a distance of approx between middle to back of green.

But is there a distance from the flag at which you ‘go for the flag’ and not back/front?
Like 85 yards or 50 yards or so, or are you always aiming for middle of green?
 

Orikoru

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I’ve found the different ideas of this thread useful…I think going forward I will club from a distance of approx between middle to back of green.

But is there a distance from the flag at which you ‘go for the flag’ and not back/front?
Like 85 yards or 50 yards or so, or are you always aiming for middle of green?
Well yeah, I guess the shorter the club the more precise you can be. For a 50 yard pitch shot I'm playing that as 50 yards to where the pin is, yeah. In terms of clubbing I guess we're more referring to full shots.
 

Springveldt

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There is generally less trouble behind a green than in front.
Count the holes on your course that have bunkers or water hazzards behind the green?
12 of the greens at my place have trees/bushes/crap within 10 yards of the back of the green.

Conversely just about all of them have nothing short of them, bunkers are at the side but the greens are narrow and long for the most part.
 

Doon frae Troon

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12 of the greens at my place have trees/bushes/crap within 10 yards of the back of the green.

Conversely just about all of them have nothing short of them, bunkers are at the side but the greens are narrow and long for the most part.
10 yards is a one club adjustment.
At the most extreme the pin would be 5 yards from the back.
Five yards short of the pin is a two club call.
Your course seems to be squeezed in to it's surroundings.
Many holes on an 'average' golf course are banked at the back.
 

Springveldt

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10 yards is a one club adjustment.
At the most extreme the pin would be 5 yards from the back.
Five yards short of the pin is a two club call.
Your course seems to be squeezed in to it's surroundings.
Many holes on an 'average' golf course are banked at the back.
Just a typical parkland course. Was built early 1900’s I believe. Typical James Braid design.

There are a few of the greens if you go long you are dead but the others with a copse of trees behind you will have a shot but obviously not guaranteed to be at the pin.
 
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