Downswng - the arms

[socky]

After talking to a few people and reading a few things I'm starting to think that I've being doing something wrong. So can you answer this question please?

In the downswing, purely talking about arms, not weight transfer and hip rotation... should you feel as if the left arm is dominant / leading the club in to the ball?

I ask because as a right hander at best Id say it was a 50/50 split between left and right and at worst my right takes over.

Any thoughts?

 

[One Planer]

I don't think about my arms in the downswing.

I now (......After lessons) start the down swing with my lower half with my shoulders resisting following my hips. When my hips turn the arms drop naturally with no concious thought.

This video gives a better idea of what I mean:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08rpqW2Z9Vw

From there on I keep turning into and through impact.

I have no idea what my arms are doing . As far as I'm concerend they are just going along for the ride.

 

[JustOne]

The majority of golfers use the left arm, they are called 'swingers'... those that use the right arm are called 'hitters'. The swings are slightly different but using your right arm isn't necessarily wrong if it works for you... it's just weird

 

[socky]

I cut across the ball, on a good day when the timing is right I hit it straight, otherwise is a fade or push. Let's not talk about bad days.

Did a few indoor swings with the feeling of the left arm being in charge and it felt like I was coming much much more from the inside. Also naturally seemed to flatten the left wrist at impact and deloft the club.

Of course I've not tried it in real life yet. Just didn't want to start trying something at the range if I was totally wrong.

 

[JustOne]

Here you go..... http://www.golflagtips.com/hitting-vs-swinging-part-1/

Most people as I said are 'swingers' of the club, if you want to change to become more left arm dominant then that's not a problem, some people just prefer using the right arm..... no big deal but the swing sequencing is slightly different, I'm not sure if at your level (no offence) it wil really make a difference to you. A good golf coach should be able to work with either (and be able to identify what you are doing). It's not 'broken' to be a right arm hitter... it's just less popular.

 

[virtuocity]

I'm a hitter then! Never thought of this before.

 

[Evesdad]

I'm a hitter! Didn't know about swingers and hitters but I have been working on my left more as I felt when I've tried it the results were better. I'm so right side dominant its not true can't do a thing with my left side, feet or hands.

 

[JustOne]

If you don't swing with your arms you can use your shoulder rotation to bring the club to the ball - this is a 'pivoted' swing and your shoulder turn basically drags both your arms together.... all your arms have to do is keep up so they are not left flapping miles behind - this person would be neither a swinger or a hitter as both arms are sharing the load and neither is dominant...

.... probably 95% of pros swing this way (maybe more).

Virtuocity you shouldn't be a hitter... S&T is a center/left pivoted swing, your shoulder turn and extension should bring the club to the ball, your arms should more or less just be along for the ride (contribute equally).

 

[Evesdad]

Just been into the practice studio, ie the conservatory! What JO has just posted is more me actually! Apart from the pro bit! The left starts but then the shoulders and right side take over. Well that's how it feels anyway!

 

[Alex1975]

From the top your arms are moving down across the body, the butt of the club is pointing parallel to the target. Your left arm is straight and lower,your right arm is bent and higher. If you got to the top and then just let your arms drop the left arm/hand will always get back to the ball first. I put it to you that you cannot lead with a bent, higher arm and successfully, consistently hit the middle of the club head.

Think of the feeling of tolling a bell, pulling the butt of the club towards the ground. Once the butt of the club is past the ball you can then unfurl the club from the inside. It's pretty hard at that point to come over the top with that right shoulder and have that feeling of needing to correct/get the club face squared up with the over active right hand.

Think of it as an arm club unit and not one or the other arm/hand.

This is stuff I work on and is helping me.

 

[JustOne]

From the top your arms are moving down across the body, the butt of the club is pointing parallel to the target. Your left arm is straight and lower,your right arm is bent and higher. If you got to the top and then just let your arms drop the left arm/hand will always get back to the ball first. I put it to you that you cannot lead with a bent, higher arm and successfully, consistently hit the middle of the club head.

I don't quite agree. On the backswing the right arm is above the left but they should level out at approx the top of the swing and from there the right arm won't go back above the left..... well not unless you have some crazy OTT move however it does go lower in some cases if the player tucks the right arm into the side on the downswing (especially if they get it in front of the hip where it's supposed to be).

This is what that would look like...

^
^
Apparently this 'Hogan' fella was the best ball striker that ever lived

 

[Alex1975]

My point is that (and that is a pretty extreme example you have shown) that the left arm will always be ahead of the right until release, it must then be leading, if its not then you are telling me that the right arm is pushing the left towards impact and that ain't happening.

Clearly there is always someone making a success of correcting the club head with the right hand but you would agree that it's not something you would teach?

It's one unit, getting busy with any one of them is a reaction not an action.

 

[JustOne]

if its not then you are telling me that the right arm is pushing the left towards impact and that ain't happening.

It does with hitters, the right arm (power accumulator No1) straightens into impact, pushing the club. The left arm almost lags so the right arm has something to fire against.

From the link I posted above...

The hitter on the other hand does not rely on centrifugal force but on muscular force instead.

The main action involved here is a muscular thrust of the right arm against the primary lever assembly (that is the left arm plus the club as a whole).
The clubhead is not thrown into orbit. Instead, the hitter pushes radially (against the radius!) against the shaft with his right arm only.

Hitting is less commonly used by golfers (at least consciously!) because golfing instruction out there is mainly about Swinging. However, this is a very efficient way to play Golf. It has often been reported that hitting is particularly accurate.

This said, it is worth noticing that Lee Trevino, who is a hitter, is credited to be the most accurate player of his time.

Known players who are hitter include JB Holmes, Kenny Perry, KJ Choi, Lee Trevino

You're also missing a few pieces, tilt away from the target would (for example) be one of them...

Is GMAC's right arm above his left?

 

[Alex1975]

James you need be careful that you answer peoples questions, the OP is asking should he be leading with left or right and the answer is that he should not be doing either. Can he, yes he can, is it best practice, would you teach it from scratch? No.

I hate talking about Hogan like this because I so love his swing but OMG look how laid off he. Also it is widely understood that Hogans famous elbow in his ribs thing was a large part of the reason that he fought a hook on bad days. The GMAC photo above is at impact, if you spam pics like that in a thread like this it gives the layman the idea that is is ok to lean back. I am aware that is not what he is doing but it can look like that. GMACs right arm would have been above his left and key to my point is the trailing arm. I may have used the wrong language with higher and lower, let me be clear, the left arm will always get to the ball first.

The OP did not ask "can I get away with" he asked "should I"..... Happy to debate the point, in fact I love it, I may learn something but worried that debates can start to turn into miss information.


Edit: Oh ye and I was talking just about arms as the OP asked not to chat about the body RE tilt.

 

[JustOne]

James you need be careful that you answer peoples questions, the OP is asking should he be leading with left or right and the answer is that he should not be doing either. Can he, yes he can, is it best practice, would you teach it from scratch? No.

He was asking which arm is the dominant one, and the answer is it can be either, or neither.

The left arm will always get to the ball first either because it's pulling or being pushed. The right arm should come into the ball lower than the left (ideally) as there's a degree of tucking on the incline plane but it doesn't matter if it's doing so by pulling or pushing. Pulling with the left is more common though amongst club golfers.

 

[socky]

Girls girls girls.... I was really asking about what the feeling should be. Which is hard for you guys to advise on I know as its very subjective.

Anyway, was down the range last night and having the feeling that I'm using the left arm more to drag the club in to impact, this helped my ball flight (more penetrating) and cut down on the number of cuts/slices.

 

[JustOne]

Girls girls girls.... I was really asking about what the feeling should be. Which is hard for you guys to advise on I know as its very subjective.

Anyway, was down the range last night and having the feeling that I'm more using the left arm more to drag the club in to impact helped my ball flight (more penetrating) and cut down on the number of cuts/slices.

I would say to be cautious in the concept of using the left arm, it might be better to think about it being the left SHOULDER so that your swing doesn't get too 'wristy'. The left shoulder pulls the left arm..... and in turn, it's the chest that pulls the shoulder :thup: Don't get all 'left armsy' and then forget to rotate from your core :thup:

Left vs Right is very subjective according to what swing pattern you use, the majority of 2-plane swingers are indeed 'swingers' as their left arm does most of the work, not the same for one-planers as they can use either, or neither.

 

[Alex1975]

All this aside the arms are just what joins the club to the body, the chain of the wrecking ball if you like. When doing demolition the crane does not hit the wall with the chain. Getting the arms in a good position is wise but having one lead is not a good notion. I would think getting to involved in this thought pattern will hinder rather than help. I speak from experience, it's not something I read.

 

[scratch]

After talking to a few people and reading a few things I'm starting to think that I've being doing something wrong. So can you answer this question please?

In the downswing, purely talking about arms, not weight transfer and hip rotation... should you feel as if the left arm is dominant / leading the club in to the ball?

I ask because as a right hander at best Id say it was a 50/50 split between left and right and at worst my right takes over.

Any thoughts?

This thread has become way too overly technical for a simple question. The answer is neither, the swing works from the ground up. It starts with a hip rotation which then pulls the shoulders round which in turn pull the arms through. You shouldn't feel that either arm is driving the swing, more that they are the reaction to the action.

I'm also confused by these swinger/hitter references. The difference between them is to do with transition and action through the ball, not right or left arm action. A hitter has an aggressive action whereas a swinger has a smoother action.

 

[socky]

Alex are you Shaun Clements?