Don't take my cash if you don't want guests!

[Teetotal]

Has anyone else been ill treated by members at a club? I am still fuming by an incident last year. Three of us turned up to play a semi-private club and after paying our green fees we proceeded to the first tee. One of my playing partners who is off single figures went to play off the back tees when a member rushed over and told us they were reserved for members only. He then watched us all tee off, probably to make sure that we didn't sneak back and play off the whites! Luckily we all teed off rather well, almost hitting the green which peeved him a bit.

A few holes later we were on the most ridiculous par 3 I've ever played. A completely blind hole where the pin lies about 100 feet below - a tiny tap and you're rolling over the back. Of course never having played the course we were all over the place. On the way to the next tee a man emerged from the bushes where he must have been spying on us and to get there he must have trailed us as it was in the middle of nowhere! He started ranting about how we had made such a mess of the last hole and what the hell were we doing playing 'his' course. We kindly explained that we had paid for the priviledge (definately shouldn't have bothered). As soon as we finished the round we got the hell out.

There's nothing that riles me more than a club that's happy to relieve you off your hard earned cash then make you feel thoroughly unwelcome. It's downright rude.

 

[The_Golfer]

If I was in your position and thought that somehow I had done something wrong then I would apologise profusely, if not then believe me Teetotal I would not hesitate to tell him to get a life..... I remember once I couldn't help myself, a chap was so rude and obnoxious that I said to him "either your having a very bad day or your life is pretty crap". He then gave a questioning grunt and I replied " to speak to another human being in the way you have just spoken to me isn't normal and if that is the way you are normally then I pity you because you must have a pretty bad life" to which he was obviously gobsmacked, silenced and evidently belittled..true story and I can tell you it felt so so good!

 

[USER1999]

Although I can understand where you are coming from, there are several things at issue here. I am a member at a semi private club and can see both sides on this.

As a paying guest, if you meet the etiquet, handicap requirements, and dress codes of the course, a green fee is effectively membership for the duration of your stay, and members of the club should respect this.

However, all too often, dress, behaviour and standards of play are not of the required standard. Remember that what constitutes dress and etiquet at your club can be wildly different at someone elses. (especially the old one of changing shoes in the car park.

The issue of which tees to play from should have been decided by the professional the green fees were bought from, according to club rules for visitors. Nothing annoys people who are paying £1000 plus for membership than having visitors playing off 'their' tees. In the states, you get a choice of tees, in the UK (rightly or wrongly) you don't.

As for the 'taking the money' issue, you will probably find that most of the members would rather not have green fees or societies at all, and pay a bigger annual fee. However, often it is a condition of a lease agreement for the land, part of the planning permission, or a decision by the commitee to keep subscriptions down (without asking the members to vote on it) to have an element of pay and play.

It is unfortunate that your experience of semi private clubs has been so unwelcoming, but I can see where it may come from. Clearly this does not excuse rudeness, but it may explain why the members are not overly welcoming.

 

[swingstar1]

As for the 'taking the money' issue, you will probably find that most of the members would rather not have green fees or societies at all, and pay a bigger annual fee.

murphthemog I asuume you're having laugh with the above statement

have you got any idea what sort of price hike in your sub most club members would be facing you'd be looking at if you didn't take guests or societies. At a typical members club clubs visitor rounds account for a 1/3 of the income of the club

So, that's third more on your annual sub! You're a lot richer than me and I expect most golfers if you could take that on the chin all for the 'priviledge' of not allowing others to play your course

and as for the initial situation teetotal faced - there's no excuse for rudeness (which he and his group were subjected to) and the attitude exhibited by the 'members; they encountered is, in my opinion, a big part of the reason why out game is struggling to attract new players

 

[Up_Point_1]

Personally I find the whole scenario described above very sad indeed.

As murphthemog says if you’ve paid a full Green Fee and your are suitably attired for the course then you should be given the same treatment as full paying members. If a Golf Club advertises itself as “visitors welcome” then that’s exactly what it should be. Sadly (and I’ve seen this at my own club in the past) there are a breed of “Jobs Worths” members who satisfy their day by moaning at the slightest indiscretion of others. Ironically these people are generally the type who swat it round the golf course in 120 wearing plus fours, flat caps and stinking of moth balls.

It never ceases to amaze me how territorial some members become towards their own club, and how they look upon any visitors as aliens who can’t tell one end of a golf club from the other.

It’s very sad state of affairs and ultimately this kind of behaviour will hit the club in the pocket as they’ll fail to attract new members.

DHM.

 

[The_Golfer]

Murthemog, I can accept and understand that such members would want to visitors to maintain the standards/rules at their own club, but Teetotal was not at fault whatsoever, and certainly to question his playing what outrageous. As mentioned, different clubs have differing rules, therefore it is common sense that all visitors are given a sheet to read or referred to the notice board detailing such rules before teeing off. With regards to the problem of members taking it upon themselves to challenge visitors, I feel that the club should have standard rules of approach for these members “sir were you given a rules sheet or referred to the notice board at all….the rule of the club is…., enjoy the rest of your game..” this will help alleviate possible confrontations and avoid hostilities which only deter visitors and effectively robs the club of rightful income, both green fees and any meals/drinks... and wouldn’t these members be happier if by encompassing such an approach there were fewer episodes to address.. as for the set of obnoxious sods who will never change no matter what procedures are in place, off with their heads I say!

 

[PaulOHagan]

In my experience there are far to many club members who have nothing better to do than moan about the state of their club thanks to members, visitors, juniors, women, dogs, cats any other person they can find to blame. The power of joining a comity seems to go to their heads and it doesn't surprise me you were treated like this despite being a paying visitor and competent golfer- its an all to common occurrence.

 

[Shooter_McGavin]

As much as I don't agree with the way you were treated there are far to many visitors at semi private clubs that ruin it for the rest. Members of club comities only want to see there club well looked after and people who show no respect for the course, clubhouse and the etiquette should not be allowed to play. Why should the members not look after their own golf course?

 

[John_Findlay]

Lots of valid points being made.

Most clubs need a fair amount of visitors to balance the books at the end of the year. In return for keeping their members' subs down I don't see why visitors shouldn't be treated like temporary members and be able to play from the medal tees, for example. My club in East Lothian does and it was the fantastic welcome I got there as a first time visitor which made me join it in the first place. Now, I'm introducing guests to the course and they're joining.

I can understand why many club members get so proprietorial over these things but I think it is a measure of the person whether they accept visitors with a warm welcome or a scowl. Personally, I'm very proud of my course and want to show it off to everyone. Shame more members want to keep theirs to themselves.

These ultra-exclusive courses which are being developed nowadays (Loch Lomond is a prime example) aren't in the spirit of the game, in my humble opinion.

 

[USER1999]

Referencing Swingstar1 above

I take your comments on board re: not everyone being able to afford an increase in subs (although I am not rich either).

Having just got the club accounts for the last year I can highlight my point.
Last year we made about £150k in green fees and societies. If we add to this 20% of the bar and catering take (this sounds about right) then that is another £15k. If we divide this by the number of members (men and women, not including cadets), 600, then each sub goes up by £275. Considering we pay about £950 for a years membership, which is not excessive for a club inside the M25, an increase of 25%ish to get the course to ourselves does not sound unreasonable, and would still keep our fees less than many of our neighbours.

Of course it would never happen, and it is nice to belong to a course where people can come and enjoy it, rather than having a beautiful wife and locking her away.

The gist of most of the responses above is that golf clubs are full of stuffy old moaning gits, who are keeping the game in the dark ages. Yes, all clubs have a few, but so do tennis clubs, squash clubs, work places, shops, in fact almost every aspect of life. The only way to change this is to join a golf club, get on the committee, and change it from inside. Just having a pop at committee members is a cheap shot, because without them most courses would soon fall to rack and ruin, which would be no fun at all for any of us.

The upshot is, if you get treated badly, don't go back, and tell your friends to go to courses where you have been made welcome, there are plenty out there.

 

[golfdonkey]

Absolutely right Teetotal. If you pay your money you should be left alone. It's up to the pro to outline the rules for the day BEFORE you pay your cash.

 

[hacker53]

Teetotal, judging by your group's ability, I would imagine that you've had more good experiences than bad ones like that.
A couple of points.
Firstly, Clubs are struggling for members and their current members must be made aware that many visitors are there to judge all aspects of a Club before applying for membership. With plenty of Clubs around to chose from, anyone who was treated the way you were wouldn't even want to return, let alone apply for membership.
Secondly, with regards to the Tees available, the Medal tees aren't always available, even for members. On some courses, because of the extra difficulty of playing from the Medal Tees (not just the extra length) visitors wouldn't enjoy the experience as they would by playing off the 'Yellows'.

 

[Hoppy]

Ironically these people are generally the type who swat it round the golf course in 120 wearing plus fours, flat caps and stinking of moth balls.

2 things I have got out of this, I do not agree with the comment above. On Wednesday this week I turned up at my club (I have only been a member a month and I don't know anybody yet) with a guest to find a Seniors 4 ball Texas scramble comp on, they had booked Tee times from 0800 to 10:30, I asked if it was possible to play and was told yes after the last group went off. Now it is only a 9 Hole course so we waited for a gap and jumped in, the first off were comming around for the back 9 by then. No problems at all it was a little bunched up in places but myself and my partner were treated very well having a laugh and a joke with all involved in the comp.

I don't agree with playing off the white tees unless it's a comp. Nobody should be allowed to play them isn't that classed as practice?