Dog takes ball

[Jay-Marie]

So today i was playing a round i get to the 10th tee and made a glorious 3 iron shot down the middle of the fairway, watched the ball land and come to a stop (sitting up nicely) I was quietly thinking to myself this is a good birdie opportunity here. As i was walking towards my ball along runs a big Alsation dog and promptly runs off with my titleist Pro V1 in its mouth. What is he ruling in this case? it wan't competition or anything like that but could quite easily of been.

To say i wasn't best pleased would be an understatement

 

[Craigg]

Rub of the green?

 

[rulefan]

Rule 18-1 covers it.

18-1. By Outside Agency
If a ball at rest is moved by an outside agency, there is no penalty and the ball must be replaced.

If the ball is not immediately recoverable you may substitute another one without penalty.

 

[ManinBlack]

Rub of the green?

No! The dog is an "Outside Agency"

http://www.randa.org/Rules-of-Golf/MainRules/18-Ball-at-Rest-Moved/SubRules/1-By-Outside-Agency

 

[drdel]

German dog = blame Brexit e.g. you get to make your own rules and keep your cash.

 

[mikejohnchapman]

I assume that if you retrieve it and it's been chewed you can substitute another ball without penalty?

 

[backwoodsman]

I assume that if you retrieve it and it's been chewed you can substitute another ball without penalty?

If it is unfit for play as given under rule 5-3, then yes.

 

[Craigg]

No! The dog is an "Outside Agency"

http://www.randa.org/Rules-of-Golf/MainRules/18-Ball-at-Rest-Moved/SubRules/1-By-Outside-Agency

I can assure you my tongue was firmly stuck in my cheek

 

[Jay-Marie]

I assume that if you retrieve it and it's been chewed you can substitute another ball without penalty?

Sadly there was no ball to retrieve i think it was having far to much fun with it

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Replace it as close as possible to where the original finished (in consultation with your partners) and whack it on the green and make birdie as planned

 

[rulefan]

More accurately, drop it.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

More accurately, drop it.

OK, if we're being accurate, drop it as closely to where it lay, in consultation with the partners, AND then whack it on the green and make the birdie

 

[cliveb]

Follow-up to this out of curiosity...

Suppose you've striped a drive down the middle of the fairway and it's on its run-out, but before it comes to a complete stop a dog picks it up and then drops it just out of bounds. Is this still a rub of the green, and you're OOB?

I can't see anything in rule 19-1 to give you any hope, but given that the basic mantra is "do what is fair", then this would seem unfair in the extreme.

 

[mikejohnchapman]

Follow-up to this out of curiosity...

Suppose you've striped a drive down the middle of the fairway and it's on its run-out, but before it comes to a complete stop a dog picks it up and then drops it just out of bounds. Is this still a rub of the green, and you're OOB?

I can't see anything in rule 19-1 to give you any hope, but given that the basic mantra is "do what is fair", then this would seem unfair in the extreme.

If it was known or virtually certain the ball would not have gone out of bounds - In equity I think you would replay the shot.

Interestingly a few years ago I hit a bird with a drive and the ball stayed on the course. Sadly the bird was killed. However, I took that as a rub of the green situation and played the ball as it lay .

 

[Matty]

If it was known or virtually certain the ball would not have gone out of bounds - In equity I think you would replay the shot.

Interestingly a few years ago I hit a bird with a drive and the ball stayed on the course. Sadly the bird was killed. However, I took that as a rub of the green situation and played the ball as it lay .

http://www.randa.org/Rules-of-Golf/...-or-Stopped/SubRules/1-By-Outside-Agency#core

I don't think that's right sadly. It's rub of the green and you'd proceed under rule 27-1 (i.e stroke and distance penalty).

 

[patricks148]

We have had a spate of crows nicking balls the last few weeks, usually off the green at 18.

replace without Penalty is what we have been doing.

 

[cliveb]

http://www.randa.org/Rules-of-Golf/...-or-Stopped/SubRules/1-By-Outside-Agency#core

I don't think that's right sadly. It's rub of the green and you'd proceed under rule 27-1 (i.e stroke and distance penalty).

I fished around in the decisions and saw this (decision 19-1/6):

If the dog picked up the ball, the player should have placed the ball, without penalty, as near as possible to the spot where the original ball was when the dog picked it up (Rule 19-1a).

So then referring back to 19-1a, I see this:

Note: If a player's ball in motion has been deliberately deflected or stopped by an outside agency:

(a) after a stroke played from anywhere other than on the putting green, the spot where the ball would have come to rest must be estimated.

So that suggests to me that the rules consider a dog picking up the ball to be a deliberate rather than accidental act, in which case you get to drop a ball where it would have stopped. (If your ball just hits a dog/deer/unicorn/etc and deflects OOB, that's tough).

Could an expert such as Colin, Duncan or Rulefan clarify this?

 

[delc]

I fished around in the decisions and saw this (decision 19-1/6):

So then referring back to 19-1a, I see this:

So that suggests to me that the rules consider a dog picking up the ball to be a deliberate rather than accidental act, in which case you get to drop a ball where it would have stopped. (If your ball just hits a dog/deer/unicorn/etc and deflects OOB, that's tough).

Could an expert such as Colin, Duncan or Rulefan clarify this?

Doesn't matter if it's a dog or a golfer in another group that picks up your ball at rest, they are still outside agencies and you are entitled to replace it. If it is damaged or cannot be retrieved you may substitute another ball. If a ball in motion is deflected by an outside agency, that is a rub of the green and you have to play it as it lies.

 

[pogle]

I fished around in the decisions and saw this (decision 19-1/6):

So then referring back to 19-1a, I see this:

So that suggests to me that the rules consider a dog picking up the ball to be a deliberate rather than accidental act, in which case you get to drop a ball where it would have stopped. (If your ball just hits a dog/deer/unicorn/etc and deflects OOB, that's tough).

Could an expert such as Colin, Duncan or Rulefan clarify this?

Decision 19-1/6 indicates that a dog picking up or deflecting, a ball in motion is considered an accidental, rather than deliberate act otherwise the ruling would have been to estimate where the ball would have come to rest and drop a ball (or place on the putting green) at that spot, as per the note you've quoted. However, personally I find it hard to see how a dog picking up a ball can be anything other than deliberate but that's what the Decision states.

Decisions 19-1/4 and 5 confirm the cases where the outside agency is human.

 

[cliveb]

Decision 19-1/6 indicates that a dog picking up or deflecting, a ball in motion is considered an accidental, rather than deliberate act otherwise the ruling would have been to estimate where the ball would have come to rest and drop a ball (or place on the putting green) at that spot, as per the note you've quoted. However, personally I find it hard to see how a dog picking up a ball can be anything other than deliberate but that's what the Decision states.

I read that decision as meaning that the dog picking up the ball *was* deliberate. It explicitly states that the ball should be placed where the dog picked it up. (Although it then references rule 19-1a which talks about estimating where the ball would have stopped, so there seems to be some slight conflict there).