DMD's

[palindromicbob]

Sorry can't find anything in a search but given it was in Rules News on the 22nd of December it may have gone below a few radars.

The R&A appear to have finally applied some common sense to the rules regarding DMD's especially smart phones.

From reading it, it would appear now that it's not so much a case of what your phone might be capable and more down to what the player accesses that matter. Places trust back into the players hands.

No more flow charts, slide rules or divination. All past arguments against most devices are now moot. Peace can finally reign on the GM nation (although given what I've seen during my absence from here I doubt it)

Here's the full section they now have on the subject.

http://www.randa.org/RulesEquipment/Equipment/Distance-Measuring-Devices

 

[Fyldewhite]

Yes, it has been covered before on here. Welcome news indeed.....the previous rules were just illogical nonsense. As always,though, remember the local rule has to be in place before they can be used at all. Not many don't but still up to the player to check.

 

[Three]

So devices that can be used to break the rules can be used? Ah well, nothing I say is going to change that but it seems rather illogical to me.

I know there are lots of other valid arguments, but personally I would like the use of DMD's restricted purely to lasers with no other functions other than distance, my reason being that we should only be able to measure what we can already see wherever we are standing.

Anyway, not looking for WW3, just my personal view.

 

[SaintHacker]

So devices that can be used to break the rules can be used? Ah well, nothing I say is going to change that but it seems rather illogical to me.

But you can break the rules with a golf club, shall we ban those too?

 

[Three]

But you can break the rules with a golf club, shall we ban those too?

Yawn.

 

[Colin L]

So devices that can be used to break the rules can be used?

It is welcomingly simple. They can’t be used in way that breaks the rules, but they can in a way that is sanctioned by a local rule. If you don’t like Fyldewhite’s mention of clubs, think alignment sticks. It is a breach of the rules to use these in a stipulated round, but there is nothing to stop you carrying them in your bag. The player is simply carrying all the functions on his device that he is not allowed to use in the same way as he might carry the alignment sticks.

It is a matter of trust, which is consistent with most other rules.

 

[Three]

It is welcomingly simple. They can’t be used in way that breaks the rules, but they can in a way that is sanctioned by a local rule. If you don’t like Fyldewhite’s mention of clubs, think alignment sticks. It is a breach of the rules to use these in a stipulated round, but there is nothing to stop you carrying them in your bag. The player is simply carrying all the functions on his device that he is not allowed to use in the same way as he might carry the alignment sticks.

It is a matter of trust, which is consistent with most other rules.

Bad analogy.

Everyone can see if one or more alignment sticks are being used contrary to the rules.

Nobody can see if someone using an electronic device is doing so using functions that are against the rules.

Allowing devices that have functions that can breach the rules without anyone seeing is idiotic.

 

[Colin L]

The trust that is placed upon players to abide by the rules in a largely self-regulated game like ours is not dependent on the visibility of otherwise of possible breaches. It is simply trust in the integrity of the player. Your argument is based on mistrust, which is contrary to a basic principle of golf:

The game relies on the integrity of the individual to show consideration for other players and to abide by the Rules.

 

[backwoodsman]

Bad analogy.

Everyone can see if one or more alignment sticks are being used contrary to the rules.

Nobody can see if someone using an electronic device is doing so using functions that are against the rules.

Allowing devices that have functions that can breach the rules without anyone seeing is idiotic.

There are plenty of ways of cheating that are not readily seen by others. The leather wedge is but one that springs to mind.

This change is merely a step back towards the fundamental principle of honesty of Thou Shall Not Cheat as opposed to prescribing things by saying thou shall not cheat by doing x, y or z. There's a divide of opinion on this topic. I think we have to agree to disagree on it.

 

[Val]

Bad analogy.

Everyone can see if one or more alignment sticks are being used contrary to the rules.

Nobody can see if someone using an electronic device is doing so using functions that are against the rules.

Allowing devices that have functions that can breach the rules without anyone seeing is idiotic.

Cheaters will cheat, honest players won't. It doesn't matter what device you give them

 

[Fyldewhite]

It is welcomingly simple. They can’t be used in way that breaks the rules, but they can in a way that is sanctioned by a local rule. If you don’t like Fyldewhite’s mention of clubs, think alignment sticks. It is a breach of the rules to use these in a stipulated round, but there is nothing to stop you carrying them in your bag. The player is simply carrying all the functions on his device that he is not allowed to use in the same way as he might carry the alignment sticks.

It is a matter of trust, which is consistent with most other rules.

Good analogy Colin. It illustrates the principle here perfectly.

Under the old rule I could be wearing a watch which as well as telling the time, has a compass and altimeter on it (I do possess one for hill walking). I could have a watch on my other hand that was purely a DMD and so long as I didn't use watch A to gain illegal information I was OK. If all the functionality was on the same device I was in breach because the device was illegal rather than the illegal use of it. As above....absolute nonsense.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Cheaters will cheat, honest players won't. It doesn't matter what device you give them

Depends upon whether or not the generally 'honest' golfer sees using an illegal app just very occasionally as that big a deal and not 'real' dishonesty' and rule breaking.

 

[rulefan]

Depends upon whether or not the generally 'honest' golfer sees using an illegal app just very occasionally as that big a deal and not 'real' dishonesty' and rule breaking.

What is generally honest?
Rather like a little bit pregnant?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

What is generally honest?
Rather like a little bit pregnant?

Generally honest is a bit like a Free Churcher being generally teetotal - so having an occasional sherry now and then with curtains is not really a big deal or doing any great harm to anyone.

 

[Old Skier]

Depends upon whether or not the generally 'honest' golfer sees using an illegal app just very occasionally as that big a deal and not 'real' dishonesty' and rule breaking.

So as long as it's only an occasional cheat it's ok then especially if it's only a little cheat.

I appear to have stepped into another dimension .

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

So as long as it's only an occasional cheat it's ok then especially if it's only a little cheat.

I appear to have stepped into another dimension .

I'm just suggesting that some players who deem themselves scrupulously honest might just, from time-to-time and in certain circumstances, think 'it can't really do any harm'. Can of worms unnecessarily opened IMO.

 

[rulie]

I'm just suggesting that some players who deem themselves scrupulously honest might just, from time-to-time and in certain circumstances, think 'it can't really do any harm'. Can of worms unnecessarily opened IMO.

Some players also use a putting ball.

 

[Three]

Some players also use a putting ball.

But that is a clearly visual rules violation, everyone can see that a different ball is being used.

Clubs, balls, tees and gloves do not have secret extra functions that make them non-conforming and are invisible to other players. The electronic devices in question do, so allowing them to be used is frankly plain lunacy in my eyes.

 

[chrisd]

I don't think any honest golfer would deliberately cheat

 

[doublebogey7]

But that is a clearly visual rules violation, everyone can see that a different ball is being used.

Clubs, balls, tees and gloves do not have secret extra functions that make them non-conforming and are invisible to other players. The electronic devices in question do, so allowing them to be used is frankly plain lunacy in my eyes.

Really, so you would be able to identify every non conforming ball/club just by looking at them.