Distance versus control

[woody69]

I know this topic has been touched on plenty of times before, but I had a lesson a little while ago and my coach said something I found quite interesting.

He said in the UK the general teaching standard (talking about the pro scene colleges etc) is all about teaching a player control in their shots first then trying to add power/distance, where as in Europe and the US they advocate teaching a player power and distance first and control second. He said that recently UK is starting to adopt this method more because he said it's easier to teach someone how they can control their shots, i.e. dial back the power to hit the target x number of yards away, rather than trying to get a player that is able to control these shots to increase their distance with more power, because as you can guess more power usual equals loss of control

Having done a bit of reading I really struggle with distance and I think a lot of that is down to the club head speed so it is something I am now working on. The pro said to me I should start going to the range and literally try to hit the ball as hard and as quickly as I can not really caring where the ball ends up. Once I start mastering the speed we can work on the rest to get a crisper strike, control etc etc.

Anyone else agree with this, or do you think it's a fools folly?

 

[Alex1975]

I know this topic has been touched on plenty of times before, but I had a lesson a little while ago and my coach said something I found quite interesting.

He said in the UK the general teaching standard (talking about the pro scene colleges etc) is all about teaching a player control in their shots first then trying to add power/distance, where as in Europe and the US they advocate teaching a player power and distance first and control second. He said that recently UK is starting to adopt this method more because he said it's easier to teach someone how they can control their shots, i.e. dial back the power to hit the target x number of yards away, rather than trying to get a player that is able to control these shots to increase their distance with more power, because as you can guess more power usual equals loss of control

Having done a bit of reading I really struggle with distance and I think a lot of that is down to the club head speed so it is something I am now working on. The pro said to me I should start going to the range and literally try to hit the ball as hard and as quickly as I can not really caring where the ball ends up. Once I start mastering the speed we can work on the rest to get a crisper strike, control etc etc.

Anyone else agree with this, or do you think it's a fools folly?

Without being educated on this subject I am going to put it our there that the guy is talking total rubbish.... He is talking about the whole of the UK the whole of Europe and the whole of the US..... The whole of no where is working in the same way....

 

[woody69]

Without being educated on this subject I am going to put it our there that the guy is talking total rubbish.... He is talking about the whole of the UK the whole of Europe and the whole of the US..... The whole of no where is working in the same way....

You're completely missing the point. He is talking about the teaching of young golf professionals and the coaching standard adopted. Similar if you like to how football is taught differently. In the UK it tends to be 11 aside pitches all about power, where as on the continent, it's small pitches, small balls more emphasis on skill / dribbling.

 

[Alex1975]

You're completely missing the point. He is talking about the teaching of young golf professionals and the coaching standard adopted. Similar if you like to how football is taught differently. In the UK it tends to be 11 aside pitches all about power, where as on the continent, it's small pitches, small balls more emphasis on skill / dribbling.

I get what you are saying. Lets say at county level in the UK.... Are we musing that all counties are teaching the same methods? Is there a board where all county coaches meet and discuss how to teach their players?

As I say, I am not educated in this process but I would be surprised if there is a "way" of doing things at this level. Every player will surly be learning in the way that is best for them?

 

[Blue in Munich]

I know this topic has been touched on plenty of times before, but I had a lesson a little while ago and my coach said something I found quite interesting.

He said in the UK the general teaching standard (talking about the pro scene colleges etc) is all about teaching a player control in their shots first then trying to add power/distance, where as in Europe and the US they advocate teaching a player power and distance first and control second. He said that recently UK is starting to adopt this method more because he said it's easier to teach someone how they can control their shots, i.e. dial back the power to hit the target x number of yards away, rather than trying to get a player that is able to control these shots to increase their distance with more power, because as you can guess more power usual equals loss of control

Having done a bit of reading I really struggle with distance and I think a lot of that is down to the club head speed so it is something I am now working on. The pro said to me I should start going to the range and literally try to hit the ball as hard and as quickly as I can not really caring where the ball ends up. Once I start mastering the speed we can work on the rest to get a crisper strike, control etc etc.

Anyone else agree with this, or do you think it's a fools folly?

I remember an American commenting that he was taught that way & it seemed to work well for him; it was Jack Nicklaus.

 

[Stuey01]

I have heard from some proper long hitters (PGA pros, long drive competitors) that one of the things they did to increase their distance was the simple act of repeatedly trying to hit it as fast and as hard as possible, over and over again. Establishing a new higher peak speed enables them to then have a higher speed controlled swing.

Makes sense to me.

 

[bladeplayer]

Distance comes from technique & powering through the ball and releasing through your left side (for right handers)
I hit it ok distances but what people who comment say is , "you seem to be swinging so easy" how do you do that ..

Slow back , power through , release .. BOOM

 

[Canary_Yellow]

I know this topic has been touched on plenty of times before, but I had a lesson a little while ago and my coach said something I found quite interesting.

He said in the UK the general teaching standard (talking about the pro scene colleges etc) is all about teaching a player control in their shots first then trying to add power/distance, where as in Europe and the US they advocate teaching a player power and distance first and control second. He said that recently UK is starting to adopt this method more because he said it's easier to teach someone how they can control their shots, i.e. dial back the power to hit the target x number of yards away, rather than trying to get a player that is able to control these shots to increase their distance with more power, because as you can guess more power usual equals loss of control

Having done a bit of reading I really struggle with distance and I think a lot of that is down to the club head speed so it is something I am now working on. The pro said to me I should start going to the range and literally try to hit the ball as hard and as quickly as I can not really caring where the ball ends up. Once I start mastering the speed we can work on the rest to get a crisper strike, control etc etc.

Anyone else agree with this, or do you think it's a fools folly?

For me, trying to hit is as hard as I can does not improve my clubhead speed.

My arms get too involved and then my release is compromised. I think it's a proper release that gives rise to the clubhead speed, and it's very difficult to be in a good position for a proper release when you're trying consciously to hit the ball into the next county.

If you can try and smash it without compromising technique, then I agree with what you're saying. However, for most people at the amateur end of the game this won't be possible.

So in my view, for amateur golfers, the best advice is hit it better not harder. Hitting it better to my mind doesn't mean not having a slower clubhead speed, it means making a better swing with a proper release.

 

[UlyssesSky]

I get what you are saying. Lets say at county level in the UK.... Are we musing that all counties are teaching the same methods? Is there a board where all county coaches meet and discuss how to teach their players?

As I say, I am not educated in this process but I would be surprised if there is a "way" of doing things at this level. Every player will surly be learning in the way that is best for them?

The training of the teaching pros is centralized at the respective PGA in every country. So yes, there probably is a certain "way" that is predominant in every country. Pros may change to different approaches later on, but the basic education regarding teaching methods and emphasis in the process is the same for all pros in a country.

So there may well be different "schools" in different countries. I like the football example, where you have the "spanish school" of ball possession vs. e.g. the "kick & rush" approach England used to be famous for.

 

[woody69]

For me, trying to hit is as hard as I can does not improve my clubhead speed.

My arms get too involved and then my release is compromised. I think it's a proper release that gives rise to the clubhead speed, and it's very difficult to be in a good position for a proper release when you're trying consciously to hit the ball into the next county.

If you can try and smash it without compromising technique, then I agree with what you're saying. However, for most people at the amateur end of the game this won't be possible.

So in my view, for amateur golfers, the best advice is hit it better not harder. Hitting it better to my mind doesn't mean not having a slower clubhead speed, it means making a better swing with a proper release.

Of course it is a lot about technique. Perhaps my use of the word "hard as possible" wasn't suitable, but watch any video about club head speed and it's all about the speed of the release using pretty much the arms as the wrists unhinge and "whoosh".

 

[99problemsbutapitchaint1]

If you are boosting your distance you have to sacrifice control for a period anyone with serious speed knows that when you push 100% you lose the control and you just have to accept that you will spray it and not care as it is within your longer terms strategy, it is all about making your max higher your body able to move faster and easier you just will not keep your control as you do this.

I documented my swingspeeds in a note book hitting purely to gain speed maybe 6 years ago starting with a fast swing and eding up with a very fast swing (Using a swingspeed radar) which i know overstates speeds a lot. Little blue device, costs around 100 quid..

Most golfers could gain 25 yards if they COMMITTED to doing it pretty easily, most do not, so will keep buying new gear.

Most things worth having are not easily gained, power is worth having but you cannot just buy it

Once you have the power, you will learn control

Where IMO golfers go wrong is they are taught CONTROL CONTROL do not hit it too hard and their game is limited as a result, if you go the Nicklaus route (I read his coaches book as a kid) and learn to smash it and work on control later, you will achieve more of your potential.

 

[Odvan]

If you are boosting your distance you have to sacrifice control for a period anyone with serious speed knows that when you push 100% you lose the control, it is all about making your max higher your body able to move faster and easier.

I documented my swingspeeds in a note book hitting purely to gain speed maybe 6 years ago starting with a fast swing and eding up with a very fast swing (Using a swingspeed radar) which i know overstates speeds a lot. Little blue device, costs around 100 quid..

Most golfers could gain 25 yards if they COMMITTED to doing it pretty easily, most do not, so will keep buying new gear.

Most things worth having are not easily gained, power is worth having but you cannot just buy it

Once you have the power, you will learn control

Where IMO golfers go wrong is they are taught CONTROL CONTROL do not hit it too hard and their game is limited as a result, if you go the Nicklaus route (I read his coaches book as a kid) and learn to smash it and work on control later, you will achieve more of your potential.

Didn't read your post - just wanted to share my enthusiasm for your username - tickled me :thup:

Welcome along!

 

[turkish]

If you are boosting your distance you have to sacrifice control for a period anyone with serious speed knows that when you push 100% you lose the control and you just have to accept that you will spray it and not care as it is within your longer terms strategy, it is all about making your max higher your body able to move faster and easier you just will not keep your control as you do this.

I documented my swingspeeds in a note book hitting purely to gain speed maybe 6 years ago starting with a fast swing and eding up with a very fast swing (Using a swingspeed radar) which i know overstates speeds a lot. Little blue device, costs around 100 quid..

Most golfers could gain 25 yards if they COMMITTED to doing it pretty easily, most do not, so will keep buying new gear.

Most things worth having are not easily gained, power is worth having but you cannot just buy it

Once you have the power, you will learn control

Where IMO golfers go wrong is they are taught CONTROL CONTROL do not hit it too hard and their game is limited as a result, if you go the Nicklaus route (I read his coaches book as a kid) and learn to smash it and work on control later, you will achieve more of your potential.

Welcome along and yeah I seen a guy on youtube who done this with one of those devices- didn't care too much about dispersion to begin with just tried to keep getting that swing speed up - playlist is here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLT-4_1sTQZZXhoNS7eAoIL_rOaV54F2n4

I think it could be useful but in my case- my home course is a parkland course where there is danger on every side of almost every hole. IE if you go offline you are unlikely to find it on other fairway or just light rough- it's lost, OOB or in deep trouble if you are able to find it.

At my level(26 H/C) to get round I need to keep working on control and keeping ball in play- also due to family etc the limited time I have to work on stuff I really need to work on this 1st- maybe in time it's something I will do to try and get more distance as I am not a big hitter- usually 220-230 carry.

I've played some courses though where you can go wide offline, a fairway or even 2 down where dispersion isn't as big a problem as you will still have a shot but it aint gonna happen at my track.

 

[99problemsbutapitchaint1]

Screwed up quote, tried to quote post above.. so deleted the wrong quote i just posted..


Your reply is exactly IMO what will limit your golf longer term...
You seem concerned about hitting shots offline in your next few games V gaining 20 or 30 yards that longer term will allow you way more options and better scoring. Slightly longer term thinking i guess, as I say i went with the HIT IT FAR then learn control deal and for me this is what everyone should do, it worked for Jack Nicklaus (He was the longest on tour in his day) Tiger minus Daly was the longest on Tour during his decade of dominance, POWER is important, its easier to gain it as you are learning than later on

 

[Region3]

Distance is not only about smacking it off the tee with driver, every club goes further.

I play with a guy off 9, and no way am I 4 shots better than him as a golfer, in a pure shot execution sense.
Holes that are driver - rescue for him might be 3 wood - 7 iron for me. It's a hoooooge advantage, and I wouldn't say I'm a big hitter, just a little bigger than average.

 

[Green Bay Hacker]

Played with a guy last week who is 60 and plays off 8. He hits it down the middle every time off the tee but only gets it just over 200 yards with the driver. He has a very easy 3/4 swing but was not happy though as he wanted more distance. Should he try to lengthen his swing to increase his distance and in all likelihood lose his accuracy or just accept what he has?

 

[99problemsbutapitchaint1]

Distance is not only about smacking it off the tee with driver, every club goes further.

I play with a guy off 9, and no way am I 4 shots better than him as a golfer, in a pure shot execution sense.
Holes that are driver - rescue for him might be 3 wood - 7 iron for me. It's a hoooooge advantage, and I wouldn't say I'm a big hitter, just a little bigger than average.

That is 100% true and often missed, i normally say POWER equals OPTIONS
You still have to pick the right option and execute but if its a 200 yard carry and you are hitting a 3 iron v someone jumping on a driver, the game gets a lot easier

Fred Couples always said he would take a 9 iron from the rough v a 4 iron from the fairway and if the booming drive goes straight a 9 iron from the fairway.. power is a useful tool

 

[woody69]

If you are boosting your distance you have to sacrifice control for a period anyone with serious speed knows that when you push 100% you lose the control and you just have to accept that you will spray it and not care as it is within your longer terms strategy, it is all about making your max higher your body able to move faster and easier you just will not keep your control as you do this.

I documented my swingspeeds in a note book hitting purely to gain speed maybe 6 years ago starting with a fast swing and eding up with a very fast swing (Using a swingspeed radar) which i know overstates speeds a lot. Little blue device, costs around 100 quid..

Most golfers could gain 25 yards if they COMMITTED to doing it pretty easily, most do not, so will keep buying new gear.

Most things worth having are not easily gained, power is worth having but you cannot just buy it

Once you have the power, you will learn control

Where IMO golfers go wrong is they are taught CONTROL CONTROL do not hit it too hard and their game is limited as a result, if you go the Nicklaus route (I read his coaches book as a kid) and learn to smash it and work on control later, you will achieve more of your potential.

Interesting post, and exactly what I have decided I need to instill. I wonder how long we try and get that power before we realise that it's not getting any quicker? I'm going to buy one of those Swing Analyser dongle things so I can start to get a sense of how fast I actually can swing a club and start to feel where more speed and power comes from. It looks effortless for some people but it's all about timing and hopefully that is something I can instill in my swing.

 

[RollinThunder]

I think choosing whether to develop control first, and then power, or power and then control, could depend on the course(s) you play.

My old course was long, with wide fairways, and you really could unleash the driver on maybe 15 holes, so on this you could give it a good smash and not have to worry about being punished for inaccuracy. Hitting shorter but straighter is wasteful, as you can open you're shoulders and get away with it. My new course is shorter and much narrower, so rewards accuracy, rather than distance. Hitting straight is vital, and you don't need to hit it that long, but if you smash it off line, then you're in serious trouble.

When I had my lessons, the pro said that I was swinging very slowly because subconsciously, I thought that less speed = more control. He said this isn't the case, as I wasn't compressing the ball enough, so he encouraged me to swing faster, with excellent results. I find it much easier to go for maximum distance, and then gradually refine the accuracy. To me, trying to gradually hit a straight shot further is much more difficult, and I feel that much more can go wrong.

 

[PuttPuttSteve]

The distance a ball travels is primarily dependent on the following factors:-

- Club head Speed (can be increased through improving technique)
- Dynamic launch trajectory (can be optimised through having a correctly fitted club and appropriate technique)
- Ball spin rate (affects the trajectory and can be optimised through having a correctly fitted club and appropriate technique)
- Ball speed (see below)

'Smash Factor' is the parameter to improve above all others. It's the ratio of ball speed to club head speed (CHS), so if, for example your ball speed is 150 mph and your CHS is 100 mph, your smash factor will be 1.5, which is about the best that can be achieved. (Mine is somewhat lower!) In essence, you need to transfer maximum energy from the club to the ball and to do this, you have to hit the sweet spot on the club face. If you do this consistently, you'll be close to maximising your distance.

If you want to hit it as far as you are physically able, there's no substitute for working with a good teaching pro with a launch monitor that can track all of the above.