Digger or Scooper?

[swanny32]

For what seems like forever, I've had short game lessons and generally been told, weight forward, ball back in stance, hands forward, hit down on the ball etc etc.

With my long game becoming pretty solid at the moment, I found I was losing the majority of my shots in and around the green so I decided to have a lesson with my new coach. He wants me to utilize the bounce of the golf club more, setting up with the ball more central in the stance, shaft more central, weight slightly forward, no wrist hinge on the way back using the torso to turn, and to brush the surface at impact, in doing so, using the bounce of the club. He says that it's a much friendlier way of chipping and pitching which allows a larger margin of error.

I'm not one for wasting money on a lesson so I will actually practice what my pro teaches, but I'm really struggling with this new technique. Anyone else made the switch?

 

[chrisd]

I pretty much made the same change and it improved my consistency no end. I'm a "slider" according to Titleist so I naturally graze the surface but with this method I do generate a lot more spin. I'd suggest you go with it and then put in a decent amounts of practice, it will stop the chunks and thins, I do however, still like to have some wrist break

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I have always done what you do but after watching a master class at the British Open at Woburn and a coaching piece in GM recently I am going to try this method this season. Now I just need the weather to warm up so that I can get out there.

I would have expected to thin more this way so I am interested to see how it works.

 

[swanny32]

I'm going to collar my coach tomorrow afternoon hopefully and get him to stand with me for 5 minutes to make sure I'm practicing properly, when a pitch shot comes off and I get it right, it looks and feels effortless, when it goes wrong, it looks and feels horrendous. I think my problem at the moment is that I'm automatically getting the hands ahead of the ball and the leading edge is digging in, this in turn is leading to zero confidence and having no confidence is not what you want around the greens....it also leads to you questioning whether your coach knows what he is going on about and you calling him every name under the sun!

 

[bobmac]

I'm not one for wasting money on a lesson so I will actually practice what my pro teaches, but I'm really struggling with this new technique. Anyone else made the switch?

It's not a case of switching, it's adding the shot to your arsenal of strokes you can play around the green.
Basically he is saying use your putting technique but using a lofted club.
This shot can be useful especially if you are close to the green/flag but as you move further away, you would need to use more wrist hinge.
The bottom line is if you have practiced the shot and are struggling, don't use it.

 

[Region3]

I use both methods depending on what type of shot I want to hit.

For someone who has forever been "hands forward" etc, the hardest thing to get used to imo is allowing the club to hit the ground.
You can make practice swings as hard as you like and provided the club head isn't behind your hands at 'impact' you can slap the ground as hard as you want and it won't dig in.
Once you get used to that feeling and trust it it's a surprisingly easy shot to hit. You can even hit it fat by a good few inches and still make decent contact with the ball.

I find I get a higher flight and less spin playing shots this way.

 

[swanny32]

It's not a case of switching, it's adding the shot to your arsenal of strokes you can play around the green.
Basically he is saying use your putting technique but using a lofted club.
This shot can be useful especially if you are close to the green/flag but as you move further away, you would need to use more wrist hinge.
The bottom line is if you have practiced the shot and are struggling, don't use it.

I must say, I'm slightly surprised by your last comment there Bobmac.

Something has to be done as I'm struggling around the greens with whatever method I try, especially at this time of year which is one reason why I really want this new method to work as it'll give me an advantage when it's a little wet under foot.

 

[chrisd]

My coach taught it with having my hands and shaft still slightly ahead of the blade. I find it easier and more effective to only think of pulling the grip rather than thinking of the blade on the down swing, this stops me manipulating the shot. With the same method and the ball forward in the stance it's easy to hit a high flop shot

 

[swanny32]

My coach taught it with having my hands and shaft still slightly ahead of the blade. I find it easier and more effective to only think of pulling the grip rather than thinking of the blade on the down swing, this stops me manipulating the shot. With the same method and the ball forward in the stance it's easy to hit a high flop shot

Do you expose the bounce by opening the face a bit on a normal 10-20 yard pitch shot?

 

[garyinderry]

there is a third one which I've only seen Trevino refer to and its the way I play the scooper or slider as he calls it. Apparently chi chi Rodriquez used to do this.

He calls it either holding (hands ahead holding the angle) or flipping or slider. chi chi and myself do both at the same time. So its neither one nor the other but gets the best from both methods.

You can also go steep open the blade and hit behind the ball and pull across it. Its the best of both worlds. I find it unbelievably repeatable. Sometimes as I am natural born digger I can still stick the leading edge in the ground when trying to use the bounce with a square face. This is an extra safety measure. The slight steepness brings the club in on a nice decending blow and the bounce slips the club in under the ball.

[video=youtube;tGZf_gIVp4M]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGZf_gIVp4M[/video].

Watch from at least 2.20 if you don't want to watch it all. Chi chi's action is my favourite move.

 

[bobmac]

I must say, I'm slightly surprised by your last comment there Bobmac.

If you have practiced the 'new' method and are struggling with it, why continue?

There's nothing wrong with playing the ball back and hands forward. If you are struggling with that you're not doing it right

Try this drill
Try and hit the ball under the shaft. If you get it right, the ball will go OVER the shaft

[video=youtube_share;NA8aMPqdmbY]https://youtu.be/NA8aMPqdmbY?list=PL7Uf2W3sfvqYBJ3OUldKvQT7ZWYEmPOy W[/video]

 

[swanny32]

Would you not argue that the "back in the stance, hands forward" method is higher risk?

 

[One Planer]

Would you not argue that the "back in the stance, hands forward" method is higher risk?

I would say it depends on the person and their personal quirks.

Personally speaking, the ball forward option doesn't overly suit me. I play the ball fractionally back but with not much shaft lean.

 

[bobmac]

Would you not argue that the "back in the stance, hands forward" method is higher risk?

No.
Its worked for me for the last 45 years.

and it helped this guy too

[video=youtube;aheyofsDNWc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aheyofsDNWc[/video]

 

[swanny32]

The video's you've linked to both seem to be relative to chipping, how would you play a pitch shot with this setup?

 

[garyinderry]

Higher risk? Possibly at this time of the year. Quite easy to stick the club in the ground.


Before you select what shot to play, you should always study the lie. Ground soft you may want to have less shaft lean than you would in the height of the summer.

 

[Region3]

The video's you've linked to both seem to be relative to chipping, how would you play a pitch shot with this setup?

My hands are a fraction ahead at set up, but my thoughts on this are to let the club pass my hands on the way through and turn my body rather than swing my arms.

This length of swing with a GW is good for about 85 yards. Shorter shots I can change club, swing shorter or have less wrist cock.

If this isn't what you mean please ignore me


[video=youtube;nbtfSltZ2ZI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbtfSltZ2ZI[/video]

 

[chrisd]

Do you expose the bounce by opening the face a bit on a normal 10-20 yard pitch shot?

I sit the club pretty flat and square to the target. I settle into a position where I'd be as I contact the ball (right arm lightly touching my hip) and not a conventional full swing shot position, then I just swing in to out with the club face sliding under the ball and no divot taken. I do no backward sway and I do keep the grip ahead of the blade all through the swing and I try to ensure I turn appropriate to the distance I want the ball to go.

 

[bobmac]

The video's you've linked to both seem to be relative to chipping, how would you play a pitch shot with this setup?

If I have to hit a pitch that means I am further away from the hole so I would need a longer swing. You would naturally achieve this by hingeing the wrists but the set up and ball position wouldnt change

 

[swanny32]

My pro has offered to come and practice with me, then I can watch him hit shots and vice versa, should allow me to pick his brain for 10 minutes or so.