Did Kenny Perry improve his lie

[freddielong]

Please accept my apologies if this has already been discussed but have you seen this from a USPGA play off earlier in the year

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bv9OeVK6w88

I know that it has been looked at by the rules guys on both sides of the pond - but would you be happy if your opponent did this

I am not saying he cheated but he really has a go at the rough behind his ball

 

[krokodil]

I think he'll get away with it, but I must say it's a dodgy one, it really looked like he was pressing the grass down behind the ball. Not sure what the specific rule is on this?

 

[KeefG]

<u>Ball played as it lies</u>
13-2. Improving Lie, Area of Intended Stance or Swing, or Line
of Play
A player must not improve or allow to be improved:
• the position or lie of his ball,
• the area of his intended stance or swing,
• his line of play or a reasonable extension of that line beyond the
hole, or
• the area in which he is to drop or place a ball,
by any of the following actions:
• pressing a club on the ground,
• moving, bending or breaking anything growing or fixed (including
immovable obstructions and objects defining out of bounds),
• creating or eliminating irregularities of surface,
• removing or pressing down sand, loose soil, replaced divots or
other cut turf placed in position, or
• removing dew, frost or water.
However, the player incurs no penalty if the action occurs:
• in grounding the club lightly when addressing the ball,
• in fairly taking his stance,
• in making a stroke or the backward movement of his club for a
stroke and the stroke is made,
• in creating or eliminating irregularities of surface within the teeing
ground (Rule 11-1) or in removing dew, frost or water from the
teeing ground, or
• on the putting green in removing sand and loose soil or in repairing
damage (Rule 16-1).

And there lies your answer, he clearly breaks the rules!!!

 

[freddielong]

<u>Ball played as it lies</u>
13-2. Improving Lie, Area of Intended Stance or Swing, or Line
of Play
A player must not improve or allow to be improved:
• the position or lie of his ball,
• the area of his intended stance or swing,
• his line of play or a reasonable extension of that line beyond the
hole, or
• the area in which he is to drop or place a ball,
by any of the following actions:
• pressing a club on the ground,
• moving, bending or breaking anything growing or fixed (including
immovable obstructions and objects defining out of bounds),
• creating or eliminating irregularities of surface,
• removing or pressing down sand, loose soil, replaced divots or
other cut turf placed in position, or
• removing dew, frost or water.
However, the player incurs no penalty if the action occurs:
• in grounding the club lightly when addressing the ball,
• in fairly taking his stance,
• in making a stroke or the backward movement of his club for a
stroke and the stroke is made,
• in creating or eliminating irregularities of surface within the teeing
ground (Rule 11-1) or in removing dew, frost or water from the
teeing ground, or
• on the putting green in removing sand and loose soil or in repairing
damage (Rule 16-1).

And there lies your answer, he clearly breaks the rules!!!

That was my thinking on it, this was the first hole of a two man play off so everyone was watching him and he got away with it. I think this shows how widely this rule is broken on the tour.

Keefg sorry yesterday didn't go well for you, you have a very solid set up at Boro and you will be back first attempt I am certain of it.

 

[KeefG]

Cheers but i'm not so sure we will.

To be honest i'm not overly bothered as the older I get (i'm only 33) the less interest I have in football these days. 3-4 years ago I wouldve been in flood of tears yesterday, it hasnt even bothered me in the slightest.

All the cheating & monopolising that goes on in football does my head in, and I spend all my spare time now playing and/or watching golf.

 

[freddielong]

I am the same up to about 2 years ago I was spending about £2500 a season going to watch Arsenal but I have come to realise all pro footballers are overpaid idiots. I think the tipping point for me was seeing an interveiw with Cashley Cole he was getting really angry over being offered 55K instead of 60K a week . I spend the money on myself now and watch on telly.

But anyway Kenny Perry cheated in my opinion

 

[KeefG]

But anyway Kenny Perry cheated in my opinion

I concur!

 

[medwayjon]

Definately cheating.

 

[Tommo21]

Disgraceful, blatant cheating.

 

[Spoff]

Cheers but i'm not so sure we will.

To be honest i'm not overly bothered as the older I get (i'm only 33) the less interest I have in football these days. 3-4 years ago I wouldve been in flood of tears yesterday, it hasnt even bothered me in the slightest.

All the cheating & monopolising that goes on in football does my head in, and I spend all my spare time now playing and/or watching golf.

change 33 to 30 and this could have been a post written by me!!

 

[RGDave]

Looks borderline to me. If I saw this in a game, I'd probably give my oppo' the benefit of the doubt. If I saw this hole after hole, I reckon I'd take a closer look.

 

[KeefG]

Cheers but i'm not so sure we will.

To be honest i'm not overly bothered as the older I get (i'm only 33) the less interest I have in football these days. 3-4 years ago I wouldve been in flood of tears yesterday, it hasnt even bothered me in the slightest.

All the cheating & monopolising that goes on in football does my head in, and I spend all my spare time now playing and/or watching golf.

change 33 to 30 and this could have been a post written by me!!

Its right though isnt it fella? I'm barely bothered about the Boro going down, I'm more concerned by when can I get my next round in, or how can I save up for the MX-200's etc etc.

Arses to football....it is played by over-paid, under-worked pussies who will cheat, dive & foul there way to where they want to go!

 

[Tommo21]

Looks borderline to me. If I saw this in a game, I'd probably give my oppo' the benefit of the doubt. If I saw this hole after hole, I reckon I'd take a closer look.

so it's okay once twice or three times, maybe four times, but hole after hole. If thats borderline then how many more pushes down with his club would he need to make before you would say he's improving his lie. And how can you take a closer look, ask him to do it again.

 

[vig]

Just looked at the clip. I had assumed that he had pressed his club down whilst taking his address.

He may as well of brought out the roller. I can't believe he was so overt with it.

Of course he was improving his lie! why didn't he just peg it up, i'm sure that no one would have noticed

 

[RGDave]

Looks borderline to me. If I saw this in a game, I'd probably give my oppo' the benefit of the doubt. If I saw this hole after hole, I reckon I'd take a closer look.

so it's okay once twice or three times, maybe four times, but hole after hole. If thats borderline then how many more pushes down with his club would he need to make before you would say he's improving his lie. And how can you take a closer look, ask him to do it again.

It's a video. What I can see is Kenny dropping the club behind the ball with more "energy" than I'd consider using myself.
It's not OK, even once....of course not. I like to trust players to stick to the rules. If I saw this type of thing, like I say, I'd make sure I was in a better position the next time to question his actions.....i.e. make sure I was watching properly and then ask as politely as possible what was going on......if the answer was not to my liking I'd have to cross a bridge I cannot remember crossing before.
Cheating is NOT acceptable. Maybe I'll watch it again....

 

[Dave3498]

Looks pretty dodgy to me, although after the way Perry behaved at the Masters this year leaves me to think that he is the last person I would expect to cheat in this way, however, pushing the grass down behind the ball in that way is, I think, a rule infringment.

 

[KeefG]

pushing the grass down behind the ball in that way is, I think, a rule infringment.

No think about it, he has cheated 110%.

If he had done that as he was addressing the ball then he could have got away with it (he's got away with it anyway) but as he does it, then moves away and takes a practice swing then he has cheated without a shadow of a doubt!

 

[RGDave]

I try to be very careful, especially in fluffy lies around the green. For me, I place the club behind the ball ONCE, step away, take a few swings, re-place the club in a similar fashion ONCE and then hit it.
So, for me, it looks wrong. The 3rd or 4th is very heavy-handed.....
I can't say I have enough experience to truly qualify me to judge, but repeated placing behind the ball is improving the lie i.m.o.

 

[Imurg]

Unbelievable...
if that's not against the rules then I'm going to tee it up next time I'm in the rough!
The real issue here is that people who don't know any better will look at this and think its ok. Watch out at the weekend!!

 

[nomadpaul]

I've looked closely at this at when he taps the grass and i'm not sure the club is directly behind the ball . Have another look on expanded screen and see that he addresses the ball but pulls away slightly after that initial address....