Design of golf irons!

[delc]

Many golf irons have relatively straight leading/bottom edges. Hence golfers who are not of average height and proportions have to have them custom fitted or adjusted for lie angle. If the leading edge was a bit more curved from heel to toe, this would be less necessary, and the clubs would be easier to use from sidehill lies. After all fairway woods and hybrids with more curved bottom edges generally don't have to be lie adjusted. BTW I need my irons about 2 degrees flat lie. If I play with standard irons, I am quite prone to catching the heel of the club on the ground, which closes the face and therefore a lot of my shots will go left. Tall people may have the opposite problem of catching the toe on the ground and hitting shots right.

 

[Alex1975]

Not sure if this is a question or your just telling us something but I am not sure I would want to play a chip shot or get a ball from under a tree with a sole that was like a seesaw....


Edit: BTW, custom fitting is the only hook they have left... every other club making rule is pretty maxed!

 

[delc]

Not sure if this is a question or your just telling us something but I am not sure I would want to play a chip shot or get a ball from under a tree with a sole that was like a seesaw....


Edit: BTW, custom fitting is the only hook they have left... every other club making rule is pretty maxed!

Your stance and posture tend to set the lie angle, and the club does not sit or balance on its sole. A more curved sole might give less turf drag, which is generally why hybrids are easier to hit from light rough than long irons.

 

[USER1999]

Personally, I won't buy a club with a curved front edge. Like Cleveland wedges for instance. A straighter edge frames the ball better in my view.

 

[Alex1975]

Personally, I won't buy a club with a curved front edge. Like Cleveland wedges for instance. A straighter edge frames the ball better in my view.

Pretty sure this is because you putt with your wedges!!

 

[SocketRocket]

The lie angle is not only to allow for the players height, it's to allow for shaft droop (No puns please) the shaft flex and swing speed will create an amount of bend in the shaft that needs offsetting in the club setup.

 

[SGC001]

Many golf irons have relatively straight leading/bottom edges. Hence golfers who are not of average height and proportions have to have them custom fitted or adjusted for lie angle. If the leading edge was a bit more curved from heel to toe, this would be less necessary, and the clubs would be easier to use from sidehill lies. After all fairway woods and hybrids with more curved bottom edges generally don't have to be lie adjusted. BTW I need my irons about 2 degrees flat lie. If I play with standard irons, I am quite prone to catching the heel of the club on the ground, which closes the face and therefore a lot of my shots will go left. Tall people may have the opposite problem of catching the toe on the ground and hitting shots right.

You seem to have an interesting take on many aspects of this game.

I've heard it said that because you hit the ball first the ball is gone before the club hits the ground and that the idea of the heel digging in and sending it left may help you to understand that too upright lie angle will send a ball more left than it otherwise would have gone, but due to a phenomenon known as face plane tilt as opposed to digging the heel in.

Have you come across anything like this?

Modern clubs may be more adjustable in some circumstances, but is adjusting a hybrid or wood as easy as adjusting an iron or possible in all cases?

I think height may be a slightly simplistic way of recommending lie angle, though can accept generalisations as a guide and did note the use of the word may.

 

[One Planer]

The lie angle is not only to allow for the players height, it's to allow for shaft droop (No puns please) the shaft flex and swing speed will create an amount of bend in the shaft that needs offsetting in the club setup.

This man talks sense.

I'm as standard as standard comes when it comes to iron fitting. Standard length, only a degree upright from Mizuno standard however with a stock club my strikes are more toward the toe. Believe it not, 1 degree made a difference on the lie board.

Could have been the swing for sure, but the lie board doesn't lie

 

[Ethan]

The curved sole would not overcome the effect of a wrong lie, because the face orientation will still be off if the club is held more upright or flat than the correct neutral lie angle. One of the main misconceptions about lie is this idea that a club face which is too upright causes a draw/hook because the heel digs in, and the opposite for the flat lie.

But this is wrong, and an upright lie will cause a draw/hook even if there is no ground contact because the effect of an upright lie is to close the face and the opposite for flat.

 

[delc]

To answer the points raised above.

A club with a more cambered sole will have a slightly more curved leading edge, especially the short irons and wedges. However I tend to line up my shots with the grooves rather than the bottom edge, and even if curved it will still be symmetrical.

A static fitting for me suggests about a 1 degree flat lie, but a dynamic fitting on the lie board gives 2 degrees flat. I am aware of of the the face plane tilt effect, but the shots I hit cleanly or off a tee with a standard iron club still went pretty straight (this effect does not seem to cause a problem with my fairway woods and hybrids, which are not custom fitted for lie). My problem shot going left was generally if I caught the ball even fractionally fat with an iron. The other issue for me with standard lie clubs was that in order to get a clean strike I tended to hit the ball off the heel end of the face and was therefore prone to hitting shanks. Not an issue since getting custom fitted clubs as I can now hit the ball cleanly off the centre of the club face.

Apart from maybe raising the centre of gravity a fraction, would there be any real problems in making the soles of iron clubs a bit more curved? It would certainly make them more of a universal fit and easier to hit off side-hill lies.

 

[chrisd]

Apart from maybe raising the centre of gravity a fraction, would there be any real problems in making the soles of iron clubs a bit more curved? It would certainly make them more of a universal fit and easier to hit off side-hill lies.

It would to me be a problem simply because I don't want a botched set of clubs when I can have a custom fit set and I certainly don't take side hill lies into consideration when I buy clubs

 

[delc]

It would to me be a problem simply because I don't want a botched set of clubs when I can have a custom fit set and I certainly don't take side hill lies into consideration when I buy clubs

Maybe your course doesn't have as many slopes as ours? It was a poor shot from a side hill lie that started this chain of thought.

 

[chrisd]

Maybe your course doesn't have as many slopes as ours? It was a poor shot from a side hill lie that started this chain of thought.

Perhaps a course of lessons would be a better investment to suggesting a change to the entire golf industries production lines to a design that wouldn't work anyway

 

[delc]

Perhaps a course of lessons would be a better investment to suggesting a change to the entire golf industries production lines to a design that wouldn't work anyway

Some iron sets in the past did come with more curved soles than seems to be the case now. I understand that club manufacturers do make iron heads in different lie options to cater for custom fitting anyway. The other issue for those of us who are not bog standard size and shape, is that you can't buy custom fitted clubs cheaply in sales, and the cheapest price charged for professional lie and loft adjustments in our area is £27.50. Another club fitter changes £60 for this service!

 

[HawkeyeMS]

Maybe your course doesn't have as many slopes as ours? It was a poor shot from a side hill lie that started this chain of thought.

So once again, you want something to change to help you play better. Why am I not surprised?

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Can't see anything wrong with the way they are made at the moment. What clubs were made with curved soles as you refer to and why do you think they aren't still in production in a market that seems to constantly looking for the next "edge" over competitors. There isn't the demand and C/F is the preferred method of changing the set up

 

[delc]

So once again, you want something to change to help you play better. Why am I not surprised?

I already have in the form of custom fitted irons, but they only allow me to play as well as standard sized people with off the shelf clubs! For my height I have rather short legs, a long back and slightly long arms. Hence my floor to wrist measurement is a bit shorter than normal, which is why I need flatter lie clubs, or else shorter clubs, but then I wouldn't hit the ball as far.

The other problem with C/F clubs is that they can be harder to sell for a good price secondhand on eBay, unless you get several people who need the same spec bidding for them!

 

[chrisd]

I already have in the form of custom fitted irons, but they only allow me to play as well as standard sized people with off the shelf clubs! For my height I have rather short legs, a long back and slightly long arms. Hence my floor to wrist measurement is a bit shorter than normal, which is why I need flatter lie clubs, or else shorter clubs, but then I wouldn't hit the ball as far.

The other problem with C/F clubs is that they can be harder to sell for a good price secondhand on eBay, unless you get several people who need the same spec bidding for them!

I am 6ft tall with arms like a baboon! I bought Titleist 710 AP2's in 2* flat and mid size grips! nothing too odd there. The other day I was offered £300 for them so they can be shifted if you buy decent gear! The only thing that cost more on the c/f with Titleist was my shaft choice and different grips, but, other companies don't charge extra for these changes. You can always buy forged clubs and have them bent where you purchase them from and I doubt they would charge for that!

 

[rickg]

Perhaps a course of lessons would be a better investment to suggesting a change to the entire golf industries production lines to a design that wouldn't work anyway

:thup::whoo::clap:

 

[delc]

I do take lessons from time to time, but they do not change my shape or size, or the spec of the clubs I need! Some TM clubs such as the Burner and the original RBZ irons had a slight step up in the sole at the heel and toe ends, which would help to reduce the need for custom fitting for lie, and help with side-hill lies. Unfortunately TM seem to have dropped this design feature on their later clubs.