Css & sss

[mashleyR7]

I'm not exactly sure what these are and how they affect a round of competition golf. Can someone explain it to me please?

I play at Ashford Kent, par 71 of the whites, the How Did I do shows the CSS as 71 for yesterdays comp.

 

[AmandaJR]

The SSS (Standard Scratch Score) is the score in which a scratch player would be expected to go round the course in. So a difficult course may have a SSS level or higher than the course Par and vice versa. The CSS (Competition Scratch Score) is calculated after scores are submitted from a competition which may differ from the SSS if conditions are tougher/scores higher or again vice versa. So the CSS can move dependant on how the field plays and any handicap adjustments are based upon how your score is relative to the CSS on the day.

That's it put very simply!

More reading here:

http://www.congu.com/faqs/sss.pdf

http://www.congu.com/faqs/css.pdf

 

[mashleyR7]

Ok I get the simple terms, thanks. I also hear people who talk of the 'buffer' ?

 

[AmandaJR]

Ok I get the simple terms, thanks. I also hear people who talk of the 'buffer' ?

The buffer is your safety net to not get a 0.1 increase and is relative to your handicap category OVER the CSS. So if you're Cat 3 and are 3 over the CSS you are within your buffer and no change to handicap. Likewise if you're 4 over the CSS then a 0.1 increase. Only applies to being OVER CSS as every shot UNDER leads to a reduction.

 

[mashleyR7]

So I'm 14 hcp, cat 3 yes? If the CSS for yesterdays comp was 71. Then my buffer would be 74, to not get a rise. If I shot a net 75 i'd go up 0.1 and then 0.1 up for each further shot upwards?

 

[One Planer]

The CSS (Competition Scratch Score) is calculated after scores are submitted from a competition which may differ from the SSS if conditions are tougher/scores higher or again vice versa. So the CSS can move dependant on how the field plays and any handicap adjustments are based upon how your score is relative to the CSS on the day.

Which is exactly the reason why I don't ike CSS.

Why should my handicap be determind by how other people play.

 

[AmandaJR]

So I'm 14 hcp, cat 3 yes? If the CSS for yesterdays comp was 71. Then my buffer would be 74, to not get a rise. If I shot a net 75 i'd go up 0.1 and then 0.1 up for each further shot upwards?

Yes you are Cat 3. A nett 75 would indeed get a 0.1 increase but it is only ever 0.1 regardless of how many over the CSS. If you shot a nett 70 then you would get a 0.3 decrease and if you shot a nett 69 it would be 0.6 and so on. So the up is only ever a maximum of 0.1 but the down is a multiplication of the number of shots under x handicap category.

 

[AmandaJR]

Which is exactly the reason why I don't ike CSS.

Why should my handicap be determind by how other people play.

It's a tricky one as it is also to take into account conditions. So the whole field could go up 0.1 if it was blowing a force 10 which would also seem a bit unfair. My old course had a SSS which was 2 under the course par which I hated as it meant having to be a few under par to get close to a cut. New course is harder but has a SSS 1 over par so that feels somehow fairer!

 

[Imurg]

Which is exactly the reason why I don't ike CSS.

Why should my handicap be determind by how other people play.

Haven't I heard tbis somewhere before.......?

 

[Foxholer]

Why should my handicap be determind by how other people play.

How other people play is merely a metric for how well you (probably) should have payed.

It's actually a much better way to standardise all handicaps - both within and across different clubs imo, because it 'averages' real results rather than the rather clumsy, to me, SSS.

And as the (at least original) purpose of handicaps is to obtain a 'reduced handicap' for match-play, then the actual value is always a comparison between someone else and how well they have played in comps anyway.

 

[duncan mackie]

Which is exactly the reason why I don't ike CSS.

Why should my handicap be determind by how other people play.

the corollary is 'why should your handicap be affected by the course conditions? Everyone goes up when the wind howls, and comes down on a calm day...makes sense to some I suppose.

 

[Imurg]

the corollary is 'why should your handicap be affected by the course conditions? Everyone goes up when the wind howls, and comes down on a calm day

The other side of the coin is that I've played some of my best golf in horrendous conditions and some of my worst when conditions are "ideal" Not everyone plays badly in the wind..........

Why is it a problem that "everyone" goes up one day but down the next.......?

 

[Foxholer]

The other side of the coin is that I've played some of my best golf in horrendous conditions and some of my worst when conditions are "ideal" Not everyone plays badly in the wind..........

Why is it a problem that "everyone" goes up one day but down the next.......?

It's not a 'problem'. Just a (statistically) more accurate measure. So provides a better comparison of players from different parts of the country who play significantly different courses.

 

[chrisd]

The other side of the coin is that I've played some of my best golf in horrendous conditions and some of my worst when conditions are "ideal" Not everyone plays badly in the wind..........

Why is it a problem that "everyone" goes up one day but down the next.......?

Thats the rub. I won two and finished second last year in 3 monthly medals and didnt get a cut in any because the conditions were so bad in all three that the CSS was the same as par in two and they used the SSS in one as it was deemed a small entry comp. I played my boots off to play nett par golf in all three and didnt get cut at all - I did however get very wet!

 

[rosecott]

Thats the rub. I won two and finished second last year in 3 monthly medals and didnt get a cut in any because the conditions were so bad in all three that the CSS was the same as par in two and they used the SSS in one as it was deemed a small entry comp. I played my boots off to play nett par golf in all three and didnt get cut at all - I did however get very wet!

Really Chris,

As a very experienced forummer, I am surprised that you continue to promote he misconception that handicap adjustments are related to par - it is SSS/CSS. Why on earth would you expect a cut by playing to nett par, it's SSS/CSS that counts.

P.S. and the misconception that winning (or being second) merits a handicap reduction.

 

[williamalex1]

Really Chris,

As a very experienced forummer, I am surprised that you continue to promote he misconception that handicap adjustments are related to par - it is SSS/CSS. Why on earth would you expect a cut by playing to nett par, it's SSS/CSS that counts.

P.S. and the misconception that winning (or being second) merits a handicap reduction.

Your P.S. is maybe the way it should be.

 

[chrisd]

Really Chris,

As a very experienced forummer, I am surprised that you continue to promote he misconception that handicap adjustments are related to par - it is SSS/CSS. Why on earth would you expect a cut by playing to nett par, it's SSS/CSS that counts.

P.S. and the misconception that winning (or being second) merits a handicap reduction.

I think that's it Rose

You go out on a foul day, struggle your nadgers off, win the comp by a margin and don't get the reward of a cut. I never think that the way others play should be the factor that decides whether you get a handicap cut. I had a really successful year and my handicap finished .1 more than the same time last season.

I know the way it works Rose, but wonder sometimes whether the effort I put in was worth it?

 

[patricks148]

I think that's it Rose

You go out on a foul day, struggle your nadgers off, win the comp by a margin and don't get the reward of a cut. I never think that the way others play should be the factor that decides whether you get a handicap cut. I had a really successful year and my handicap finished .1 more than the same time last season.

I know the way it works Rose, but wonder sometimes whether the effort I put in was worth it?

Easy solution, find a club that has a SSS higher than par. Then you can shoot your handicap and still get cut.

Simples

 

[chrisd]

Easy solution, find a club that has a SSS higher than par. Then you can shoot your handicap and still get cut.

Simples

Goodness me! such a simple solution, why didn't I think of that???

 

[pbrown7582]

But dont go to a club the other way around and try explaining the lack of cut when under par but not SSS it takes forever!