Crossfield Shaft Test - X Stiff vs Ladies

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Dan2501

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[video=youtube;1EgCn_Nd61g]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EgCn_Nd61g[/video]

Latest video from Crossfield on Shaft Flex and the difference in performance between an X-Stiff HZRDUS shaft and a shorter Aldila Ladies shaft. The results are very interesting to say the least - what do you reckon?
 

User101

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I've just watched the first 5 minutes to make a reply then I'll go watch the rest, but here's a true story.

My hybrids had/have R in one and S in another, I couldn't hit them well at all, couple weeks back I decided to change them round as they are both Titleist, I've hardly hit a bad shot with either since...strange but true.
 

casuk

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That was a really interesting video and I have personally been sucked it to that side of the equipment, I currently use the 65g yellow stiff (stock) in my king f7 and was thinking of changing it for no reason whatsoever I'm not going to bother now
 

cliveb

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I can't face ploughing through 21 mins of Crossfield wittering on. I tried jumping through looking for the meat, but to no avail.

Can anyone point me to the appropriate timings within the video where something of import actually gets said?

Or failing that, just summarise his findings?
 
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Dan2501

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I can't face ploughing through 21 mins of Crossfield wittering on. I tried jumping through looking for the meat, but to no avail.

Can anyone point me to the appropriate timings within the video where something of import actually gets said?

Or failing that, just summarise his findings?
The results were:

- Very little difference in performance between the two
- The ladies shaft launched lower, spun 200rpm more, and despite being shorter in length went a very similar distance
- They established that Dan's pre-conceived ideas around shaft-flex influenced his impact conditions - for example without thinking about it he consciously hit down on the ladies driver by a degree or two whereas the AOA with the HZRDUS was fairly neutral.

The summary was that the difference in shafts are purely feel based. Crossfield has done this test with a number of professional golfers and got the same result every single time.
 

patricks148

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The results were:

- Very little difference in performance between the two
- The ladies shaft launched lower, spun 200rpm more, and despite being shorter in length went a very similar distance
- They established that Dan's pre-conceived ideas around shaft-flex influenced his impact conditions - for example without thinking about it he consciously hit down on the ladies driver by a degree or two whereas the AOA with the HZRDUS was fairly neutral.

The summary was that the difference in shafts are purely feel based. Crossfield has done this test with a number of professional golfers and got the same result every single time.
TBH i didn't watch it Crossfield is a bit too annoying, but i see where you are coming from on this, but guys with good swings a great tempo can hit anything.
The pro that used to be at My club Robin Fyfe, he was a fantastic player, played with Seve and in the open a few times. He could play with anything. his swing was soo good he could adapt his tempo. Watched him it a ladies hybrid one day as thats what he had lying around... 240 every time.

Might be more interesting if they had a chomper hitting different shaft?
 

Hacker Khan

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He's did a similar video a few years ago with Buzza I think, kind of showing they make very little difference. Then again over the years he's always said shafts make a minimal difference and there are much more important things to get right for 99% of golfers.
 

Hacker Khan

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TBH i didn't watch it Crossfield is a bit too annoying, but i see where you are coming from on this, but guys with good swings a great tempo can hit anything.
The pro that used to be at My club Robin Fyfe, he was a fantastic player, played with Seve and in the open a few times. He could play with anything. his swing was soo good he could adapt his tempo. Watched him it a ladies hybrid one day as thats what he had lying around... 240 every time.

Might be more interesting if they had a chomper hitting different shaft?
I suspect that as long as they were not playing a XXX stiff when they were more suited to a seniors flex, would the fact that they would be hitting it all over the club face completely override any impact the shaft was having?
 

pendodave

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I suspect that as long as they were not playing a XXX stiff when they were more suited to a seniors flex, would the fact that they would be hitting it all over the club face completely override any impact the shaft was having?
I was thinking that too. The bigger the chopper, the more terrible contact and 'interesting' face to path and AOA will effect the outcome. There'll always be some that are convinced that the stick matters most though...
 

Papas1982

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The results were:

- Very little difference in performance between the two
- The ladies shaft launched lower, spun 200rpm more, and despite being shorter in length went a very similar distance
- They established that Dan's pre-conceived ideas around shaft-flex influenced his impact conditions - for example without thinking about it he consciously hit down on the ladies driver by a degree or two whereas the AOA with the HZRDUS was fairly neutral.

The summary was that the difference in shafts are purely feel based. Crossfield has done this test with a number of professional golfers and got the same result every single time.
I think that a good player can hit it acceptably with whatever the head is attached too. As he said, they made changes to their swings. Could you or I?

Its interesting, but imo proves nothing, but it is good for his narrative......
 

chrisd

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Its interesting, but imo proves nothing, but it is good for his narrative......
I think it proved that the shaft has very little to do with the spin, direction, AofA, or end result. So, learning how to strike the ball in the most efficient way is much more important than the shaft
 

Dibby

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I can see both sides of this argument.

On the one hand, we are saying the shaft does not have that big an impact on the end result, it just feels different.

On the other hand, if something feels different, you swing it differently, and therefore the outcome is different. Just having something that "feels right" might help you, even if on a robot the outcome would be no different.

My personal take on it all is that different component do make a difference, but they are not going to correct a huge fault as some people imagine, and the impact of different components will vary depending on your consistency and ability to adapt to different feelings quickly and successfully.

Not as exciting to not be at either extreme of the debate though!
 

User101

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Wonder if Mr Parfield can explain why I can't hit the ball straight with a specific stiff shaft in my driver but if I swap it with a different stiff shaft I can hardly miss.
 

Papas1982

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I think it proved that the shaft has very little to do with the spin, direction, AofA, or end result. So, learning how to strike the ball in the most efficient way is much more important than the shaft
The same could be said for using newer tech, if you hit the sweet spot the ball flys better. But for an amateur a bigger sweet spot is beneficial. So whilst hitting the in the most efficient way may be a nice ideal. For amateurs it’s not a realistic one.
 

Khamelion

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I've not watched the video, but I will and reserve the right to change my text if appropriate.

When I got fit for my irons the numbers were telling the fitter I needed a lighter stiff shaft, but I wasn't getting very good results, the fitter had the idea to put a heavier regular shaft in instead and it was chalk and cheese.

Now I know as amateurs our swings are not consistent enough to fine tune to the Nth degree the same way the Pros do, but we can tell when something is not working and in the instance I mention about my fitting, a lesson or several could've got me to use the stiff shaft, but the fitting was about getting a shaft that worked for me at that particular moment, not one the fitter thought was best and that I could be lessoned into.

So while someone with a consistent swing can make the most of any shaft making the appropriate changes to adapt to a different shaft, a shaft for us mere mortals is what works for us with the swing we have.

**On You Tube there is a Mizuno video with Nick Faldo going though the Mizuno swing DNA tool and fitting, it's a little long for some to sit through, but Faldo does give some nice insights into the fitting process old and new.
 
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Capella

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I think it does have a lot to do with feel. What I noticed during my iron fitting was that the right shaft (in my case a very light and flexible one) made it a lot easier for me to feel where the clubhead was during the swing and therefore making it easier to make solid contact with it. I guess, someone with a lot of experience in hitting different clubs all the time will struggle less with things like that and therefore get less of a difference in performance. The ball does not care about the shaft. It cares about speed and angle of the clubhead at impact. How it gets there is between the golfer and the shaft.

I guess if you were to test this with a robot, you would find a setting for each shaft with each clubhead speed that gives otimal results. But the sequence would not be the same for each shaft.
 

garyinderry

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I think it does have a lot to do with feel. What I noticed during my iron fitting was that the right shaft (in my case a very light and flexible one) made it a lot easier for me to feel where the clubhead was during the swing and therefore making it easier to make solid contact with it. I guess, someone with a lot of experience in hitting different clubs all the time will struggle less with things like that and therefore get less of a difference in performance. The ball does not care about the shaft. It cares about speed and angle of the clubhead at impact. How it gets there is between the golfer and the shaft.

I guess if you were to test this with a robot, you would find a setting for each shaft with each clubhead speed that gives otimal results. But the sequence would not be the same for each shaft.
Its funny how you say a light and flexible shaft allows you to feel the club head during the swing. I am the complete opposite. I prefer heavier shafts and certainly on the stiff side. If I feel quite a bit of play in the head I can start to do funky things with my hands if I lose where the head is during the swing.
 
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Its funny how you say a light and flexible shaft allows you to feel the club head during the swing. I am the complete opposite. I prefer heavier shafts and certainly on the stiff side. If I feel quite a bit of play in the head I can start to do funky things with my hands if I lose where the head is during the swing.
That was Dan’s issue in the test, what he “felt” and believed what was happening was incorrect, and maybe, showed that sometimes what people “feel” is preconceived.
 

chrisd

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The same could be said for using newer tech, if you hit the sweet spot the ball flys better. But for an amateur a bigger sweet spot is beneficial. So whilst hitting the in the most efficient way may be a nice ideal. For amateurs it’s not a realistic one.
I wouldn't disagree over the sweet spot, it's pretty certain to hit the ball better properly centered. I think the main thing he was trying to show was that upgrading to a more expensive shaft is not likely to improve a person's results.
 
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