Criteria for introduction/removal of Preferred Lies

SammmeBee

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Why use fairway mats?
With temperatures providing little growth during the winter months these small bits of Astroturf help protect the turf from divot damage which would otherwise take until the summer to repair.

Maybe it's the other way round??? (Taken from the Old Course website).
Not the same thing fella…..the might be something to do with the number of rounds and that it’s f’ing freezing up there after June 22 up until June 20 next year…….
 
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This year we've gone "preferred lies" as of 1st Oct as a) it's needed and b) it's a neat enough date for members to remember.

Round our place at this time of year, as soon as the ground gets any moisture - be it morning dew, or rainfall - then up come the worms and wormcasts. It's impossible to play a clean ball without PL
 

rulefan

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It's impossible to play a clean ball without PL
What's wrong with using this?

E-2 Cleaning Ball
Purpose. When conditions such as wet ground conditions throughout parts of the course may cause mud to stick to the ball, the Committee can choose to allow the player to lift, clean and replace the ball in the general area. Such relief should be limited to those portions of the course where needed.
For guidance on when and how this Local Rule may be used in order for scores to be submitted for handicapping purposes (for example, if it must be limited to fairway only), consult the rules or recommendations contained within the Handicap System operating in the local jurisdiction.

Model Local Rule E-2
“When a player’s ball lies in [identify area, such as the general area, at the 6th hole, in the general area cut to fairway height or less, etc.], the ball may be lifted cleaned and replaced without penalty. The player must mark the spot before lifting the ball (see Rule 14.1) and the ball must be replaced on its original spot (see Rule 14.2).

At least you would get the lie you earned with the shot.
 
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Swango1980

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Played an Open on Friday, and wish they'd introduced preferred lies. Over half my shots were taken with lumps of mud on the ball, some massive. What's more, their fairways were not great, quite long but also patchy. So, felt like I had to dig down into ball a lot, like hacking it out of the rough.
 

rulefan

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Played an Open on Friday, and wish they'd introduced preferred lies. Over half my shots were taken with lumps of mud on the ball, some massive. What's more, their fairways were not great, quite long but also patchy. So, felt like I had to dig down into ball a lot, like hacking it out of the rough.
That suggests that the lie wasn't the problem but just a dirty ball. E-2.
 
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What's wrong with using this?

E-2 Cleaning Ball
Purpose. When conditions such as wet ground conditions throughout parts of the course may cause mud to stick to the ball, the Committee can choose to allow the player to lift, clean and replace the ball in the general area. Such relief should be limited to those portions of the course where needed.
For guidance on when and how this Local Rule may be used in order for scores to be submitted for handicapping purposes (for example, if it must be limited to fairway only), consult the rules or recommendations contained within the Handicap System operating in the local jurisdiction.

Model Local Rule E-2
“When a player’s ball lies in [identify area, such as the general area, at the 6th hole, in the general area cut to fairway height or less, etc.], the ball may be lifted cleaned and replaced without penalty. The player must mark the spot before lifting the ball (see Rule 14.1) and the ball must be replaced on its original spot (see Rule 14.2).

At least you would get the lie you earned with the shot.
Yes, I guess we could use E2 but given that preferred lies will inevitably be used at some stage, just seems to make sense to have the one LR in place throughout.
 

Colin L

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Yes, I guess we could use E2 but given that preferred lies will inevitably be used at some stage, just seems to make sense to have the one LR in place throughout.
Think again, perhaps? Preferred lies apply only to closely mown areas; lift, clean and replace can apply anywhere in the general area such as to a ball in the first cut with a dod of mud on it.
 
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Think again, perhaps? Preferred lies apply only to closely mown areas; lift, clean and replace can apply anywhere in the general area such as to a ball in the first cut with a dod of mud on it.
Also true. But then, I'd just mention it's idiot golfers we're dealing with. Two similar, but not identical, LR's will likely lead to neither being implemted properly.:)

As matter of interest, is it Ok to bring in E2 where it covers the entire general area of the course?
 

rulefan

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As matter of interest, is it Ok to bring in E2 where it covers the entire general area of the course?
As it says in the preamble ..

When conditions such as wet ground conditions throughout parts of the course may cause mud to stick to the ball, the Committee can choose to allow the player to lift, clean and replace the ball in the general area. Such relief should be limited to those portions of the course where needed.

While the Local Rule for Preferred Lies (Model Local Rule E-3) is designed for use only in areas cut to fairway height or less in the general area, this Local Rule can be used throughout the general area or restricted to specific areas. The Committee could choose to use both Local Rules permitting preferred lies in the fairways and cleaning the ball elsewhere in the general area.
 
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D-S

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As it says in the preamble ..

When conditions such as wet ground conditions throughout parts of the course may cause mud to stick to the ball, the Committee can choose to allow the player to lift, clean and replace the ball in the general area. Such relief should be limited to those portions of the course where needed.

While the Local Rule for Preferred Lies (Model Local Rule E-3) is designed for use only in areas cut to fairway height or less in the general area, this Local Rule can be used throughout the general area or restricted to specific areas. The Committee could choose to use both Local Rules permitting preferred lies in the fairways and cleaning the ball elsewhere in the general area.
Would scores be acceptable for handicap with E-2 in place for all the general area?
 

wjemather

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Would scores be acceptable for handicap with E-2 in place for all the general area?
Yes. From CONGU's guidance:
GH/4 Local Rule for Lift, Clean and Replace
Acceptable Scores are permitted when the Local Rule (Model Local Rule E2) allowing cleaning of the ball in the General Area is in place.
 

IslaG

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Two quick questions on preferred lies (lift clean and place) - 30cm at our club.
Some folk place the ball on their chosen spot, release their fingers so they’ve let it go then change their mind and pick it up and find a nicer tuft! (Still within the 30cm) They maintain if their marker is still down that’s OK I reckon the ball is in play once they release their fingers
2 What is the procedure/ruling if the ball is placed correctly after cleaning and placing but won’t stay on its tuft and rolls off. Does rule 14.2e apply so you try again on same spot then go for nearest
Thank you
 

rulefan

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Two quick questions on preferred lies (lift clean and place) - 30cm at our club.
Some folk place the ball on their chosen spot, release their fingers so they’ve let it go then change their mind and pick it up and find a nicer tuft! (Still within the 30cm) They maintain if their marker is still down that’s OK I reckon the ball is in play once they release their fingers
You are correct
2 What is the procedure/ruling if the ball is placed correctly after cleaning and placing but won’t stay on its tuft and rolls off. Does rule 14.2e apply so you try again on same spot then go for nearest
Thank you
14.2e applies
 

rulefan

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Yes. It must remain stationary on the tuft (or the place it is moved to) before it is played. If it moved a second or so after being placed, that is ok.
 

rulie

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Yes. It must remain stationary on the tuft (or the place it is moved to) before it is played. If it moved a second or so after being placed, that is ok.
I'll add a little to this discussion - if the ball was at rest after being placed, ie, stayed at rest for a few seconds, and then moved, the player must play it from its new spot. If the ball was not at rest, ie, moved within a second or two, the player must proceed under 14.2e.
 
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rulefan

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I'll add a little to this discussion - if the ball was at rest after being placed, ie, stayed at rest for a few seconds, and then moved, the player must play it from its new spot. If the ball was not at rest, ie, moved after just a few seconds, the player must proceed under 14.2e.
Do you mean ..... If the ball was not at rest, ie, moved within after just a few seconds, ...?
 
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