Cracks in the ground

[louise_a]

Due to the dry conditions we have some shocking cracks opening up one in particular was as deep as a ball.

I was at another local club and noticed a notice stating free relief if your ball is on a crack, is this allowed, it is abnormal ground condition but not one listed in the rules.

It would certainly make sense to allow relief

 

[drdel]

It certainly qualifies as "abnormal" - it ain't GUR etc. so I can't see why a local rule would be wrong.

 

[duncan mackie]

Due to the dry conditions we have some shocking cracks opening up one in particular was as deep as a ball.

I was at another local club and noticed a notice stating free relief if your ball is on a crack, is this allowed, it is abnormal ground condition but not one listed in the rules.

It would certainly make sense to allow relief

The problem with that definition as posTed is the definition of cracking ie you would basically be able to take relief at any time!

In principle it's a permitted LR situation but there needs to be some clarification. Don't have easy access to the rules for a few days but I thought there was a wording around this somewhere - probably in the appendix on ground conditions and LRs

 

[jim8flog]

[h=2]25/12[/h] [h=4]Cracks in Earth[/h] Q.Are cracks in the earth which occur in hot and dry conditions ground under repair? Do the Rules of Golf provide relief?


A.No. However, a player whose ball is in a large crack would be justified in requesting the Committee to declare the crack to be ground under repair, and the Committee would be justified in doing so.

I am presuming from this decision that a club would not be able to have a general local rule but would be able to give relief in specific locations.

 

[louise_a]

[h=2]25/12[/h] [h=4]Cracks in Earth[/h] Q.Are cracks in the earth which occur in hot and dry conditions ground under repair? Do the Rules of Golf provide relief?


A.No. However, a player whose ball is in a large crack would be justified in requesting the Committee to declare the crack to be ground under repair, and the Committee would be justified in doing so.

I am presuming from this decision that a club would not be able to have a general local rule but would be able to give relief in specific locations.

This is very big job when they are appearing all over the course.

 

[drdel]

I know its no longer fashionable but 'common sense' would surely say that if the crack is sufficient that a ball is either stopped by or sits with (say 25%) a 'crack' then that is abnormal.

The real-world probability of it occurring would be pretty low so I can't see that giving relief would be likely to influence scores in a major way.

 

[duncan mackie]

[h=2]25/12[/h] [h=4]Cracks in Earth[/h] Q.Are cracks in the earth which occur in hot and dry conditions ground under repair? Do the Rules of Golf provide relief?


A.No. However, a player whose ball is in a large crack would be justified in requesting the Committee to declare the crack to be ground under repair, and the Committee would be justified in doing so.

I am presuming from this decision that a club would not be able to have a general local rule but would be able to give relief in specific locations.

Cheers Jim, that's one thing I was thinking about.

My interpretation of this, as posted above, is that the committee may make a LR permitting relief (from such cracks) providing that they are able to define them in a manner that meets the principle within the decision. The last post above includes what I would consider an appropriate attempt. Something along the lines of the ball sitting in a crack of more than 1/2" (13mm) width at that point.

 

[OnTour]

One day they might get the rules right, like greens if your in the fairway you should be able at all times to lift clean and place crack divot or bad lie. anything else play it as it lies.
unrepaired pitch marks and on the fringe again a penalty for the person who hasn't done anything wrong chipping onto the green from a fairway lie. backwards thinking.


common sense golf rules.

 

[pendodave]

One day they might get the rules right, like greens if your in the fairway you should be able at all times to lift clean and place crack divot or bad lie. anything else play it as it lies.
unrepaired pitch marks and on the fringe again a penalty for the person who hasn't done anything wrong chipping onto the green from a fairway lie. backwards thinking.


common sense golf rules.

hmmm.. not sure about this. Golf isn't fair, part of the game is (within reason) the ability to overcome adversity.

As for the cracks, would the local rule be through the green or just on close mown areas?

 

[Foxholer]

One day they might get the rules right, like greens if your in the fairway you should be able at all times to lift clean and place crack divot or bad lie. anything else play it as it lies.
unrepaired pitch marks and on the fringe again a penalty for the person who hasn't done anything wrong chipping onto the green from a fairway lie. backwards thinking.


common sense golf rules.

Rules are pretty much fine as they are!

In many ways, 'Golf' can be considered a reflection of real life and the character of the person who may be disadvantaged by their ball ending up randomly in a poor situation. Part of the game (and of many other sports, but golf seems more 'cerebral' than others) is how the player reacts to such situations. Like in life, those that shrug it off and get on with the rest of the round are more likely to be successful than those that let a particular event fester!

So instead of swearing and letting a bad situation ruin your round, just let it wash over you and make the best of it - just as you should in real life!

 

[clubchamp98]

My club has deemed visible cracks to be AGC for the duration of summer , or until they tell us otherwise.
Very sensible decision , the games hard enough.

 

[jim8flog]

My club has deemed visible cracks to be AGC for the duration of summer , or until they tell us otherwise.
Very sensible decision , the games hard enough.

This part of the 'problem' with some clubs. They do not first check the rule book to see if the local rule they wish to have is allowed.

It is how I came to be on the committee, where I play, in the first place. Various committees through the years kept introducing Local Rules which the R&A said they could not have and I kept bringing the appropriate decision to their attention.

It is not so much about common sense but making sure that wherever you play the club is using the same rule book.

 

[drdel]

Rules are pretty much fine as they are!

In many ways, 'Golf' can be considered a reflection of real life and the character of the person who may be disadvantaged by their ball ending up randomly in a poor situation. Part of the game (and of many other sports, but golf seems more 'cerebral' than others) is how the player reacts to such situations. Like in life, those that shrug it off and get on with the rest of the round are more likely to be successful than those that let a particular event fester!

So instead of swearing and letting a bad situation ruin your round, just let it wash over you and make the best of it - just as you should in real life!

Odd that the worldwide courses used by the PGA are all so meticulously maintained to give perfect greens and manicure fairways.

They should save their cash and reduce their carbon footprint and we'll all happily 'play the ball as it lies' and enjoy and smile at the challenge (luck) that divots, stones, natural humps and hollows provide.

 

[clubchamp98]

This part of the 'problem' with some clubs. They do not first check the rule book to see if the local rule they wish to have is allowed.

It is how I came to be on the committee, where I play, in the first place. Various committees through the years kept introducing Local Rules which the R&A said they could not have and I kept bringing the appropriate decision to their attention.

It is not so much about common sense but making sure that wherever you play the club is using the same rule book.

but surely a local rule is just that LOCAL.
Unless the R&A come and inspect every situation you can’t have one rule for all situations.
I am sure the club have checked the legality of this,
Maybe my interpretation was not clear enough my apologies if so.

 

[louise_a]

After consultation with the County, we do now have a specific local rule to cover these cracks.

 

[duncan mackie]

but surely a local rule is just that LOCAL.
Unless the R&A come and inspect every situation you can’t have one rule for all situations.
I am sure the club have checked the legality of this,
Maybe my interpretation was not clear enough my apologies if so.

They don't inspect the situation, they inspect the wording of the proposed LR against the rules and principles.

That crack A is worthy of relief, but not crack B is a matter for the committee to decide, and they then need to produce a LR that enables all players to take the same relief (as each other) for any situation they find themselves in (principle).

Specifically dealing with cracks, 25-12 already quoted covers the rule aspect ie you cannot designate all cracks as GUR but you may provide relief for players who find their ball in a large crack.

You now decide on a LR appropriate to your course and the current conditions that takes into account the rule and the principle and pass it by the R&A for approval (unless there's an approved OR wording that you wish youse as it is.) Simple process to do this now - used to be a phone call that could always get confusing!

I'm really glad you have such confidence in your committee - I only have to look at the LRs on cards for courses I visit to have very little such confidence (and that's before reading posts on here!)

 

[duncan mackie]

After consultation with the County, we do now have a specific local rule to cover these cracks.

Would be useful to see the approved wording Louise (famous last words....)

 

[clubchamp98]

They don't inspect the situation, they inspect the wording of the proposed LR against the rules and principles.

That crack A is worthy of relief, but not crack B is a matter for the committee to decide, and they then need to produce a LR that enables all players to take the same relief (as each other) for any situation they find themselves in (principle).

Specifically dealing with cracks, 25-12 already quoted covers the rule aspect ie you cannot designate all cracks as GUR but you may provide relief for players who find their ball in a large crack.

You now decide on a LR appropriate to your course and the current conditions that takes into account the rule and the principle and pass it by the R&A for approval (unless there's an approved OR wording that you wish youse as it is.) Simple process to do this now - used to be a phone call that could always get confusing!

I'm really glad you have such confidence in your committee - I only have to look at the LRs on cards for courses I visit to have very little such confidence (and that's before reading posts on here!)

They have deemed it GUR relief under rule 25-1.
only relief for the ball in crack through the green ,not your stance or swing.
Would that be correct.

 

[rosecott]

One man's crack, another man's ……………..

 

[duncan mackie]

They have deemed it GUR relief under rule 25-1.
only relief for the ball in crack through the green ,not your stance or swing.
Would that be correct.

Playing devils advocate.....what you have written would seem to suggest that with the ball sitting on pretty much any tiny crack you may take relief (that if the area had a lot of cracks could enable you to move the ball a huge distance when it lands on a new crack when dropped each time) but that if the ball (amazingly) wasn't on a crack, but there was an 8" crack preventing you from taking your stance, it's tough luck.

As to whether it's 'correct'; as presented i would suggest that 25-12 says that such a worded LR isn't acceptable. Suitably defining 'in crack and 'crack' would be required.