Course conditions or talent issues?

[lukeysafc100]

I was having a discussion with my friend regarding the state of the bunkers on the course. I personally felt he was just moaning for the sake off it and the fact he can't play the "perfect" shot out or play any kind of bunker shot at all. So its down to his talent rather than bunker itself.

I agree a few of the bunkers need looking at but I feel the majority of them are ok - its only because of the wet weather we've had is making them a bit compact. But you've got to adjust your game to the conditions that you find them - surely it shows the difference between a good and average golfer.

Just like when someone complains about the greens its mainly about them having a poor round with the putter.

It also got me thinking - because we watch "perfect" golfing conditions on sky sports 4 every week are we expecting too much from green keepers? shouldn't we except the fact that we live in the UK where it's more waterproofs than t-shirts!

what are you opinions?

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I agree with you. Same in any sport, you need to adjust to the pitch, the weather, the opposition. Tell him to man up

 

[ManinBlack]

I have no time for people who expect a perfect lie in a bunker every time. It's called a "hazard". There's one course, can't remember where, where they don't maintain bunkers & don't supply rakes, you just have to play it as you find it. Our greenkeeper says that maintaining the bunkers is the hardest part of his job.

 

[Capella]

Little bit of both, actually. I think the point is that most of us mid to high handicapped weekend warriors are used to certain conditinons and a certain style of course (like, our home course in relatively pleasant weather), and our shots will be most atuned to that. We are, on the other hand, lacking the experience to deal with conditions which are profoundly different. For example I am normally pretty okay out of bunkers that have a certain amount of dry fluffly sand in them. But I find it very hard to adapt that to compact wet sand. That does not mean that those conditions are "bad" per se ... but they are bad for me, because I just don't have a shot in my bag to deal with them. Similar for putts. Fast, slightly sandy greens like you find on links courses, are an absolute killer for me, because I just don't have the opportunity to ever practice on those kinds of greens. So for me it is not so much a question of good or bad conditions, but of familarity.

Pros (and amateurs who play on a higher level and on many different courses) just have more experience in adapting their game to different conditions.

 

[Coffey]

I agree as well. You need to adjust and play a different shot if the sand is wet and compact. You can't go into a bunker which you can quite clearly tell is soaked and compact and expect it to play like a lovely fluffy bunker you see on TV.

Although at my old club there were more stones than sand, now that was something which really really annoyed me and loved a good moan about that!

 

[lukeysafc100]

I have no time for people who expect a perfect lie in a bunker every time. It's called a "hazard". There's one course, can't remember where, where they don't maintain bunkers & don't supply rakes, you just have to play it as you find it. Our greenkeeper says that maintaining the bunkers is the hardest part of his job.

That's interesting that! I suppose it would solve the riddle of rakes in or out!

 

[Hosel Fade]

He should learn how to play the shot a bit squarer with a bit less bounce and ideally try harder to avoid them when he well knows what the bunkers are like. Up there with those people that whinge about not being given putts imo, if you are whinging you should just go and tap it in one handed and get it over with, otherwise its not close enough for a whinge.

 

[lukeysafc100]

He should learn how to play the shot a bit squarer with a bit less bounce and ideally try harder to avoid them when he well knows what the bunkers are like. Up there with those people that whinge about not being given putts imo, if you are whinging you should just go and tap it in one handed and get it over with, otherwise its not close enough for a whinge.

Funny enough - he loves a good whinge on when I don't give him a putt! but oddly he never gives me the putts he expects given! haha

 

[Jimaroid]

They're supposed to be natural hazards, take them as you find them or go home.

There is only one unforgivable bunker maintenance sin and that is the use of bunker lining. There's nothing natural about that stuff and having to play off of tufts of bedraggled old underground carpeting is the only time I feel it's legitimate to complain about bunker condition.

 

[fundy]

I was having a discussion with my friend regarding the state of the bunkers on the course. I personally felt he was just moaning for the sake off it and the fact he can't play the "perfect" shot out or play any kind of bunker shot at all. So its down to his talent rather than bunker itself.

I agree a few of the bunkers need looking at but I feel the majority of them are ok - its only because of the wet weather we've had is making them a bit compact. But you've got to adjust your game to the conditions that you find them - surely it shows the difference between a good and average golfer.

Just like when someone complains about the greens its mainly about them having a poor round with the putter.

It also got me thinking - because we watch "perfect" golfing conditions on sky sports 4 every week are we expecting too much from green keepers? shouldn't we except the fact that we live in the UK where it's more waterproofs than t-shirts!

what are you opinions?

Bunkers are hazards so for me you take them as you find them and try your best to adjust, it helps if they are consistent but rarely seem to be these days especially at ours

Cant have your comment about greens though. Quality of the greens can make or break my enjoyment of a game of golf and its nothing to do with whether I putt well but whether I will be rewarded if I do putt well. Its the best part of my game (by a long shot currently) but this only counts on decent surfaces

 

[Tashyboy]

For me one of the beauty's of our course, is the fact of how much it changes through the year, bunkers included. You have to change your game to the course.
I was one of those that could whinge all day about bunkers, but that was becaus I was crap in them. A simple bunker lesson helped to sort that out.
Re gimmes, I have tried telling my PPs that this time of the year we should not be giving them, the greens have changed in pace and break and the gimmes are now not so gimme.

 

[Coffey]

For me one of the beauty's of our course, is the fact of how much it changes through the year, bunkers included. You have to change your game to the course.
I was one of those that could whinge all day about bunkers, but that was becaus I was crap in them. A simple bunker lesson helped to sort that out.
Re gimmes, I have tried telling my PPs that this time of the year we should not be giving them, the greens have changed in pace and break and the gimmes are now not so gimme.

Interesting, in our practice rounds we actually give more generous gimmes because the greens are bit more unpredictable and if you are on a short putt the ball will be more affected by the humps, bumps and sand. Generally during the winter I am not too fussed on the shorter putts as they really do move off anything.

 

[Foxholer]

Talent issues!

The correct reply is 'Well, stay out of them then!'!

 

[Tashyboy]

Interesting, in our practice rounds we actually give more generous gimmes because the greens are bit more unpredictable and if you are on a short putt the ball will be more affected by the humps, bumps and sand. Generally during the winter I am not too fussed on the shorter putts as they really do move off anything.

Coffey our greens were cut two weeks ago for the first time in nearly three months. They look gorgeous and are a lot quicker. Had a five foot putt yesterday, downhill. Touched the putt and it ended 10 ft past the hole. Green keeper sat on his mower watching was laughing his head off. I could not of hit it any slower.

 

[lukeysafc100]

Bunkers are hazards so for me you take them as you find them and try your best to adjust, it helps if they are consistent but rarely seem to be these days especially at ours

Cant have your comment about greens though. Quality of the greens can make or break my enjoyment of a game of golf and its nothing to do with whether I putt well but whether I will be rewarded if I do putt well. Its the best part of my game (by a long shot currently) but this only counts on decent surfaces

Yeah I get what you say regarding the greens - but I must elaborate - a perfect warm summer day, greens are like carpet - you'll always get someone moaning about them!

 

[Coffey]

Coffey our greens were cut two weeks ago for the first time in nearly three months. They look gorgeous and are a lot quicker. Had a five foot putt yesterday, downhill. Touched the putt and it ended 10 ft past the hole. Green keeper sat on his mower watching was laughing his head off. I could not of hit it any slower.

That sounds great fun :rofl:. Ours don't get like that until the summer. This year they did a lot of work on them during the winter and they dumped enough sand on the greens you could build a sandcastle. The ball needed to be cleaned every putt, even if you had a foot left as there was just so much sand on the ball. So we just gave longer gimmes as all that time just adds up. I managed to miss a putt from inside a foot as when i hit it, it just didn't move with the amount of sand on the ball.

 

[clubchamp98]

They're supposed to be natural hazards, take them as you find them or go home.

There is only one unforgivable bunker maintenance sin and that is the use of bunker lining. There's nothing natural about that stuff and having to play off of tufts of bedraggled old underground carpeting is the only time I feel it's legitimate to complain about bunker condition.

spot on at my old club I had no problems with bunkers wet or dry.
Joined new club few years ago and in my second year they installed bunker linings like matting .
If you try to play a traditional bunker shot sand first you can break your wrist I hate them.
They are so inconsistent you can't tell how deep the sand is and it just puts dought in your mind.
Have gone from good bunker player to just glad to get it out now.

 

[Break90]

Either learn how to play different bunker shots for different conditions, or learn how to avoid them in the first place. Either way will work, but don't moan about them.

re greens, I've putted well on terrible greens and terribly on great greens, again it's generally poor putters that complain about poor greens in my experience.....

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Either learn how to play different bunker shots for different conditions, or learn how to avoid them in the first place. Either way will work, but don't moan about them.

This. I'm not fantastic out of bunkers but functional enough to get it out in most conditions first time. That will do for me until the summer and the dry sand when I can work on my technique in ideal conditions. No excuses then

 

[jusme]

Ouch - hard task masters here. Depending on the course some bunkers you come across are atrocious. I have no other issues with any part of any other course - in fact I expect lots of mud etc at times and on certain courses and have learned to play in this, but bad bunkers are what I complain about most.

I'm not talking about compacted sand as this is to be expected in winter/wet conditions - I'm talking about no sand, or next to no sand where your club grabs the liner or the concrete underneath. no excuse for this in my opinion - put bloody sand in, any type of sand is better than none. I'd love to hear the technique you use for hitting bunker liners. In summary I find too many of these types of bunkers lately. It's as if bunkers are an after thought to ever other part of course maintenance. BTW - I consider myself a competent bunker player, yelling for the ball to get in one, rather than the rough around the green.