Could I of played my provisional ball?

[connor]

I hit ball into a hedge which runs next to a cliff, I fairly sure it's lost so hit a provisional just incase. (Which then lands all but on the green) player A tells me ball went in head high it's deff gone. But player b looks anyway whilst walking past and can clearly see the ball.. but it can't be reached out the and is unplayable from where it is, wouldn't of been able to take 2 club lengths or go back in line.
I said I'll play my provisional then to which was told I couldn't as we had seen my original ball even though I couldn't even get it out from where it was??? Ended up blobbing the whole!!
I thought hole idea of a provisional was to play if your other ball is potentially lost or Oob to assist in pace of play so not having to walk back?

 

[rulefan]

I hit ball into a hedge which runs next to a cliff, I fairly sure it's lost so hit a provisional just incase. (Which then lands all but on the green) player A tells me ball went in head high it's deff gone. But player b looks anyway whilst walking past and can clearly see the ball.. but it can't be reached out the and is unplayable from where it is, wouldn't of been able to take 2 club lengths or go back in line.
I said I'll play my provisional then to which was told I couldn't as we had seen my original ball even though I couldn't even get it out from where it was??? Ended up blobbing the whole!!
I thought hole idea of a provisional was to play if your other ball is potentially lost or Oob to assist in pace of play so not having to walk back?

No you could not have played your provisional. As you had found your original, your provisional is now dead. The ball was only provisionally in play unless you couldn't find your first.

The reason is that you may never have a situation where you have a choice of which ball to play, ie the one in the nicest position.

If it was permitted, everyone would be playing a provisional for every ball hit off the fairway, ostensibly 'just in case it's lost'. But really so they can have a choice of the better lie. They would declare the original ball with an unfavourable lie as 'unplayable'.

 

[anotherdouble]

I hit ball into a hedge which runs next to a cliff, I fairly sure it's lost so hit a provisional just incase. (Which then lands all but on the green) player A tells me ball went in head high it's deff gone. But player b looks anyway whilst walking past and can clearly see the ball.. but it can't be reached out the and is unplayable from where it is, wouldn't of been able to take 2 club lengths or go back in line.
I said I'll play my provisional then to which was told I couldn't as we had seen my original ball even though I couldn't even get it out from where it was??? Ended up blobbing the whole!!
I thought hole idea of a provisional was to play if your other ball is potentially lost or Oob to assist in pace of play so not having to walk back?

Why couldn't you have gone 2 club lengths?

 

[williamalex1]

Did you identify it as your ball ?

 

[connor]

But the other ball was completely unplayable couldn't even took a drop my only option would of been to walk back to original spot and play shot again(hence why I thought I could use my provisional)
We couldn't reach the original ball with a club to get it back out.
I've put balls in that hedge before and you never see them again.
If I could of got a club on it I would of played it as it was next to the green anyway. It wasn't a case of picking my favourite I genuinely thought it was lost so did player a. Neither of us looked and player b decided to go and have a look

 

[connor]

Did you identify it as your ball ?

Yeah I was playing truvis although that's all as couldn't see any markings.

2 club lengths would still been in the hedge so wouldn't of been an option as would of also put me closer to the pin as it was green side

 

[rulefan]

Why couldn't you have gone 2 club lengths?

As the reference point is the ball itself, it may be too far into the hedge. He did say he couldn't reach it.

Edit:

Or maybe didn't know he could substitute another ball.

 

[anotherdouble]

But the other ball was completely unplayable couldn't even took a drop my only option would of been to walk back to original spot and play shot again(hence why I thought I could use my provisional)
We couldn't reach the original ball with a club to get it back out.
I've put balls in that hedge before and you never see them again.
If I could of got a club on it I would of played it as it was next to the green anyway. It wasn't a case of picking my favourite I genuinely thought it was lost so did player a. Neither of us looked and player b decided to go and have a look

2 clubs does not have to get you out of trouble it's just a way of measuring. It could take you 4 club lengths which would be 2 penalty strokes

 

[connor]

Yeah I couldn't reach it, no didn't realise I could swap balls??

 

[anotherdouble]

As the reference point is the ball itself, it may be too far into the hedge. He did say he couldn't reach it.

Edit:

Or maybe didn't know he could substitute another ball.

He might not be able to reach it but you can still measure from it. Surely. I.e. Butt of club at the ball

 

[connor]

2 clubs does not have to get you out of trouble it's just a way of measuring. It could take you 4 club lengths which would be 2 penalty strokes

But instead of that I would of just walked back and played the shot again.
Which Wouldn't my provisional count as doing?

 

[williamalex1]

Did you not put any identfication marks your ball ?

 

[Colin L]

I take it that Connor is saying that two club lengths or back along the line from the hole through the ball were not viable options. Just to be clear in case anyone thinks you can only take stroke and distance because you cannot retrieve the unplayable ball, you are allowed by Rule 28 to substitute another ball and all 3 options are available to you. Whether they help in a given situation is another matter.

 

[connor]

Yea but from how it was sat I couldn't see them or reach the ball to turn it over a little bit

 

[anotherdouble]

But instead of that I would of just walked back and played the shot again.
Which Wouldn't my provisional count as doing?

As per Rulefans post earlier

 

[connor]

I take it that Connor is saying that two club lengths or back along the line from the hole through the ball were not viable options. Just to be clear in case anyone thinks you can only take stroke and distance because you cannot retrieve the unplayable ball, you are allowed by Rule 28 to substitute another ball and all 3 options are available to you. Whether they help in a given situation is another matter.

I didn't know I could substitute a ball I was on the understanding only if a ball lost or badly damaged was only times during a hole it could be swapped

 

[rulefan]

Yeah I couldn't reach it, no didn't realise I could swap balls??

The last words of the Rule (28) say When proceeding under this Rule, the player may lift and clean his ball or substitute a ball.

 

[anotherdouble]

Yea but from how it was sat I couldn't see them or reach the ball to turn it over a little bit

So nobody identified it as your ball. All you are then saying is player B found a ball in the hedge. If that is the case it is a lost ball me thinks and the provisional can be played

 

[connor]

Anyway thanks for clearing it up chaps. I wasn't sure but didn't argue the case on the course I just accepted what player b told me that I couldn't play my Provisonal and I would have to blob the hole if can't get To my other ball.
I guess all it boiled down to was I wish he didn't look for it when as far as me and player a was concerned it was a gonner.

 

[williamalex1]

So nobody identified it as your ball. All you are then saying is player B found a ball in the hedge. If that is the case it is a lost ball me thinks and the provisional can be played

:thup: