Correct marking when taking relief from a staked tree.

[mikejohnchapman]

In a recent club match my ball came to rest near a staked tree. Checked the card and relief was due which was agreed by our opponents. Marked the nearest point of relief, measured a club lenght and marked that point. Checked with the opposition it was no nearer the hole and they agreed. Picked my ball up and went to drop it and they called a penalty for not marking my ball before lifting it.

I must admit I have never marked my ball when taking relief (always do when taking a penalty drop) and it's never been questioned before.

Who was correct?

 

[guest100718]

Another BS rule, I have had the same thing said to me. You only need to mark it if you need to replae it. i.e on the green or moving out the way for a FC.

 

[fundy]

chuck them a rule book and ask them to show you the rule that they think applies

 

[Colin L]

Your opponents were wrong. There is no requirement to mark before lifting a ball that is to be dropped. The only time you must mark before lifting is when a ball is to be replaced.

Rule 20-1 is the reference you need.

 

[guest100718]

Did it have any bearing on the outcome of the match?

 

[duncan mackie]

You only need to mark it if you need to replace it. eg on the green or moving out the way for a FC.

this should be the easy way for people to remember this one

for those getting into an argument about it; it's rule 20-1 and includes "The position of the ball must be marked before it is lifted under a Rule that requires it to be replaced."

damn - fingers getting too slow again!

 

[bobmac]

I always advise it as good practice to mark the orginal position of the ball in case after the drop there is a question of if the ball ends up nearer the hole. If the original position is marked, there will be no doubt.

 

[Spuddy]

I always advise it as good practice to mark the orginal position of the ball in case after the drop there is a question of if the ball ends up nearer the hole. If the original position is marked, there will be no doubt.

Provided the nearest point of relief is marked, the original ball position is irrelevant. After it's dropped, the ball cannot be closer to the hole than the NPR which by definition is no closer to the hole than the original position.

 

[MadAdey]

I always advise it as good practice to mark the orginal position of the ball in case after the drop there is a question of if the ball ends up nearer the hole. If the original position is marked, there will be no doubt.

Im with you on this Bobmeister. Even though there is no need to mark the original spot, it prevents any arguements about the balls original position and if you have taken the correct relief or not. I was always told by my dad to do this out of good practice and does it really take any extra effort to do it?

 

[Fyldewhite]

Provided the nearest point of relief is marked, the original ball position is irrelevant. After it's dropped, the ball cannot be closer to the hole than the NPR which by definition is no closer to the hole than the original position.

There is no requirement to mark anything. Just good practice for the avoidance of doubt (and therefore disputes) and to ensure you get the maximum relief available if that's what you want to get.

 

[Spuddy]

There is no requirement to mark anything. Just good practice for the avoidance of doubt (and therefore disputes) and to ensure you get the maximum relief available if that's what you want to get.

Agreed, I should have said 'provided the NPR has been determined' rather than 'marked'. My point was made because I've seen people drop a ball that rolls closer to the hole than the NPR. They think its in play because its farther from the hole than the original position however that point is now irrelevant and the NPR is the reference that should be used.

 

[bobmac]

After it's dropped, the ball cannot be closer to the hole than the NPR which by definition is no closer to the hole than the original position.

How can your playing partners know that if they dont know where the original ball was?

As I said, it's just good practice IMO

 

[MadAdey]

Agreed, I should have said 'provided the NPR has been determined' rather than 'marked'. My point was made because I've seen people drop a ball that rolls closer to the hole than the NPR. They think its in play because its farther from the hole than the original position however that point is now irrelevant and the NPR is the reference that should be used.

I think what this boils down to is carrying out something to prevent confusion with playing partners. If I call to someone that I'm taking a drop I will mark the ball, then mark the NPR and mark the one clubs length relief. Then when any playing partner comes over they can clearly see what I'm doing. It's something I do for the sake of speeding up the game, why wait until your PP gets there to start figuring out where you'll be dropping your ball.

 

[Spuddy]

How can your playing partners know that if they dont know where the original ball was?

As I said, it's just good practice IMO

I know it is and that's why I do it as well. That being said, there's no requirement to inform anyone you are playing with of your intentions and no one has to observe you lifting and dropping etc. The only time that's required is for ball identification or when it's damaged.

 

[bobmac]

. That being said, there's no requirement to inform anyone you are playing with of your intentions and no one has to observe you lifting and dropping etc.

I ALWAYS tell my playing partners if I intend to lift my ball for any reason and I always mark it.
And I also advise anyone else to do the same.

 

[chrisd]

I ALWAYS tell my playing partners if I intend to lift my ball for any reason and I always mark it.
And I also advise anyone else to do the same.

I do too, it stops any unnecessary arguments as in the OP

 

[Fyldewhite]

Totally get what you are all saying about marking it and I do so most of the time, especially if I need the full 1/2 clublengths but.......

1. Doing this religiously, when it isn't really necessary re-enforces the idea that it's the rule that this must be done when it isn't....and can therefore lead to incidents like in the OP.

2. It hardly speeds up play to start faffing around with tee pegs when where to drop is really obvious (eg a path across the fairway) and it can be seen what you are doing from 50 yards away. In this case I normally just shout across what I'm doing, make sure I'm not taking any liberties and get on with it.

 

[North Mimms]

I can understand them getting irked if you had picked up ball before determining NPR, but surely once you have agreed NPR the original ball position is no longer required?

 

[mikejohnchapman]

Did it have any bearing on the outcome of the match?

No but it all got a bit tense for the rest of the match and spoiled what should have been a good contest.

 

[mikejohnchapman]

The opponents were standing a couple of yards away as I went through the process and agreed every step. What hacked me off was them not saying anything until I picked my ball up and then calling the penalty.