Coronavirus - how is it/has it affected you?

[SocketRocket]

Over 60’s
What happens when they say “no money” throw me in jail.

Dark days

They could always get a jab. As some one mentioned, what if you want to drive and not have a licence or insurance or no TV licence.

 

[Old Skier]

Mmm. I want to be able to drive without the need for a driving licence… bit simplistic I know but…

Seriously though, I agree it should be by choice, but that restrictions be in place for those that choose not to have it. No going in a pub or restaurant, nor a cinema or concert. No going into shops nor sitting on a plane. That isn’t just restricting their ‘liberties,’ it’s, more importantly, protecting other people.

Who will pay for the extra staffing required to do the checks or next will governments close down establishments that cannot afford to pay for extra staff.

German Christmas Markets would be a nightmare as many of them are in residential areas as well as town centres. What happens there, no exit or entry to people’s houses.

Like I posted earlier, policing these restrictions in many circumstances will be close to impossible.

 

[Old Skier]

They could always get a jab. As some one mentioned, what if you want to drive and not have a licence or insurance or no TV licence.

I think you missed the point.

 

[DanFST]

Its not do different to alcoholics, smokers, druggies etc so the answer is yes.

Cigarettes and alcohol are heavily taxed.

around £10million is made via tobacco duty, and then more with VAT. Whilst estimated costs to the taxpayer is estimated at £3 - 4.5 million.

 

[Swinglowandslow]

Some have been saying they will do it bit nobody has come up with how or what sanctions can be applied.

IMO removing freedom of choice is a dangerous route to go down.

They've reduced your choice to drive on the right hand side of the road!

Laws of all kinds "reduce your choice". To do something or refrain from doing something!😳

 

[SocketRocket]

I think you missed the point.

Not really. I'm not advocating throwing people in jail willy nilly but like any other law infringement that course of action is way down the road after community service, paying by installments and so on.

 

[SocketRocket]

Cigarettes and alcohol are heavily taxed.

around £10million is made via tobacco duty, and then more with VAT. Whilst estimated costs to the taxpayer is estimated at £3 - 4.5 million.

What's that to do with the point in discussion. It wasnt about the net cost, rather the moral duty of care for Ill people.

 

[Swinglowandslow]

Thing is, I would agree with these restrictions a lot more if the vaccine meant that there was no transmission however whilst it may reduce it slightly it still seems plenty easy for it to spread from vaccinated to vaccinated, vaccinated to unvaccinated and so on. Given this is the case then surely the only people who are really at risk are the unvaccinated and that is their choice.

Those who are vulnerable will have the vaccine and will be as protected as they can be but they’ll just as likely catch it from well meaning family members as the unvaccinated.

I believe Ethan has explained to you before that it is not as stark as you are saying. The unvaxxed spread it easier than the vaxxed. Viral loads etc.
Then there is the unnecessary burden on hospitals.
Why defend this defiance to be a responsible citizen?

 

[Old Skier]

What's that to do with the point in discussion. It wasnt about the net cost, rather the moral duty of care for Ill people.

I think if you go down the moral duty of care route I'm sure there have been times when we have ignored the moral duty of care we have in many aspects of everyday life.

 

[bobmac]

Its not do different to alcoholics, smokers, druggies etc so the answer is yes.

Totally disagree.
Alcoholics, smokers and drug users are mostly addicted to the substance and there is no simple way to stop them becoming addicted.
Yes, no-one forces them to smoke, drink or take drugs but I think if they were offered a jab that would cure them, they would take it in a heartbeat, especially if it stopped them being addicted in the first place.
I won't even go into the fact that alcohol, cigarettes and drugs aren't contagious, Covid is.


At present we have people who have the opportunity (medically) to get this free brilliant vaccine and for whatever selfish reason, they refuse to take it. They should sign a form to say they accept, although they will get treated eventually, they will have to go to the back of the queue.
Why should an accident victim or a cancer sufferer be denied an intensive care bed because someone has caught a potentially fatal virus because they didn't want to take a simple jab?
It's nuts.

As for the vaccine passports, they should be called your vaccine record, that might stop the idiots comparing them to the Nazis asking to see your papers.
It will be credit card sized and sit in your wallet or purse next to your other cards.

Some may think that's a bit extreme but these are extreme times.
Carrying a credit card is less of a hardship than when people were asked to carry gas masks in 1940

 

[road2ruin]

Totally disagree.
Alcoholics, smokers and drug users are mostly addicted to the substance and there is no simple way to stop them becoming addicted.
Yes, no-one forces them to smoke, drink or take drugs but I think if they were offered a jab that would cure them, they would take it in a heartbeat, especially if it stopped them being addicted in the first place.
I won't even go into the fact that alcohol, cigarettes and drugs aren't contagious, Covid is.

Sorry but I disagree, whilst they may not be contagious how many hospital beds are full of people there because of the actions of those who have drunk too much or on drugs?

You cannot start deciding to treat some people and then delay others because you do not agree with their choices. Doesn't that give medical professionals carte blanche to do so on other things when they do not agree with the choices made. The NHS is there to treat all and not to decide who are more/less deserving.

 

[road2ruin]

Why defend this defiance to be a responsible citizen?

When the initial jabs were made available I had mine at the first available opportunity however I do find myself becoming somewhat 'vaccine hesitant' about taking the booster as it will likely be Pfizer and the adverse reactions do concern me. The numbers are likely to be very small however statistically they may well be higher than any issues I would have with the virus itself given my age/health etc. I am not saying that I won't have the booster however I have cancelled my December slot for the time being whilst I really think about it.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I won't even go into the fact that alcohol, cigarettes and drugs aren't contagious, Covid is.

Perhaps not in a viral infection way…but in other ways an addiction can be, and often is, ‘contagious’…especially within the addicts family…and most certainly the damage and illness an addict suffers is contagious in that it is very often reflected by physical and mental damage in those close to the addict.

The best, often only, way to help those damaged by the addict is to help and treat the addict. Abandon the addict and you abandon a whole circle of family and friends.

 

[bobmac]

Perhaps not in a viral infection way…but in other ways an addiction can be, and often is, ‘contagious’…especially within the addicts family…and most certainly the damage and illness an addict suffers is contagious in that it is very often reflected by physical and mental damage in those close to the addict.

The best, often only, way to help those damaged by the addict is to help and treat the addict. Abandon the addict and you abandon a whole circle of family and friends.

Alcoholics/drug takers can not infect doctors and nurses who are treating them.
Covid patients can.
And where did I say that drug addicts shouldn't be treated?
Do I have to make it any clearer or are you just looking for an argument.

 

[road2ruin]

Alcoholics/drug takers can not infect doctors and nurses who are treating them.
Covid patients can.
And where did I say that drug addicts shouldn't be treated?
Do I have to make it any clearer or are you just looking for an argument.

To be fair to SILH I didn't read his comment as looking for an argument. You suggested that unvaccinated Covid patients should be put to the back of a queue because of a decision they've made. That's fine however where does it stop? A drunk driver has an accident, back of the queue. A drunk addict who OD's, again, back of the queue as both made questionable decisions that has lead them into A&E on a trolley. We should never get to the point where medical professionals are able to treat/not treat people based on their personal decisions.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Alcoholics/drug takers can not infect doctors and nurses who are treating them.
Covid patients can.
And where did I say that drug addicts shouldn't be treated?
Do I have to make it any clearer or are you just looking for an argument.

I simply commented on your statement…’I won't even go into the fact that alcohol, cigarettes and drugs aren't contagious, Covid is’…that was made at the end of the first para in which no care context was given, and made clear the specific context and ways in which addictions can be ‘contagious’ in the broadest sense.

 

[bobmac]

We should never get to the point where medical professionals are able to treat/not treat people based on their personal decisions.

The unvaccinated covid patient made the decision to not take the vaccine, knowing the outcome would mean going to the back of the queue, their choice.

 

[bobmac]

I simply commented on your statement…’I won't even go into the fact that alcohol, cigarettes and drugs aren't contagious, Covid is’…that was made at the end of the first para in which no care context was given, and made clear the specific context and ways in which addictions can be ‘contagious’ in the broadest sense.

Do you agree that a Covid patient who had the option to take the vaccine but chose not to do so, is more likely to infect other patients and staff with Covid than an alcoholic is to infect patients and staff with their alcoholism?

 

[road2ruin]

Do you agree that a Covid patient who had the option to take the vaccine but chose not to do so, is more likely to infect other patients and staff with Covid than an alcoholic is to infect patients and staff with their alcoholism?

They alcoholic, drug addict, obese person (not all I appreciate) have all made a choice, at some point, that has lead them to the point of them being in hospital. You can disagree as much as you like however all should be treated equally.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

They alcoholic, drug addict, obese person (not all I appreciate) have all made a choice, at some point, that has lead them to the point of them being in hospital. You can disagree as much as you like however all should be treated equally.

Whilst I agree with the general thrust of your argument, I might quibble with your use of the word ‘choice’ as a generalisation in the context of substance addictions, as opposed to anti-vaxxers who in the vast majority of cases do seem to choose to not be vaccinated.